heavyshooter
Member
I have a Bushmaster Model #XM15-E2S. How do I know if the buffer tube is Commercial or Mil-Spec. I am trying to determine which Magpul CTR stock to order.
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Bushmaster - Commercial or Mil-Spec Buffer Tube
- Thread starter heavyshooter
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crossrhodes
Member
Measure it...nominal 1.150 for milspec and 1.170 for commercial.
hirundo82
Member
Z-Michigan
Member
It will be commercial spec unless they changed something VERY recently.
madcratebuilder
Member
The Shrubs use a commercial RE, buy a mil-spec stock and replace the RE with mil-spec. Adding a H buffer would be good for a carbine gas system.
heavyshooter
Member
What is the benefit of Mil-Spec over Commercial?
Some commercial tubes use a cheaper grade of aluminum and are extruded rather than forged.
Commercial tubes can be thin in the walls which means they are not as strong and can bend more easily. I found this out the hard way, bending a commerical tube so badly the rifle would not function after dropping the gun off a bench and onto a concrete pad.
I use Mil-Spec diameter tubes on all my collapsing stock rifles now and prefer VLTORs as my first choice. HTH
Commercial tubes can be thin in the walls which means they are not as strong and can bend more easily. I found this out the hard way, bending a commerical tube so badly the rifle would not function after dropping the gun off a bench and onto a concrete pad.
I use Mil-Spec diameter tubes on all my collapsing stock rifles now and prefer VLTORs as my first choice. HTH
mastiffhound
Member
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I have a newer bushy, same model, made less than a year ago. What I have noticed:
MP marked barrel.
F marked front sight.
My sr556 has a commercial tube for sure, and my stocks with the bushy are not interchangable. The bushy stock is too small for the ruger sr556. I have tried because I was bored one day.
My gas key is propery staked.
Shrouded firing pin in the bcg.
Chrome lined barrel of course.
I can't remember all the mil-spec stuff but all of these things seem to be important to everyone else. I like my bushy because it shoots soft and is pretty accurate.
All this has made me think that Bushmaster has upped their quality. Has anyone else picked up a new one recently?
MP marked barrel.
F marked front sight.
My sr556 has a commercial tube for sure, and my stocks with the bushy are not interchangable. The bushy stock is too small for the ruger sr556. I have tried because I was bored one day.
My gas key is propery staked.
Shrouded firing pin in the bcg.
Chrome lined barrel of course.
I can't remember all the mil-spec stuff but all of these things seem to be important to everyone else. I like my bushy because it shoots soft and is pretty accurate.
All this has made me think that Bushmaster has upped their quality. Has anyone else picked up a new one recently?
Matthew Courtney
Member
Several companies, including Bushmaster, let QC slide when trying to keep up with the rush after the 2008 election. Most have gotten their QC issues straightened out.
My Bushmaster .308 ORC purchased in May of 2010 was made in March 2010 and has been completely checked out. It is exactly what it is supposed to be.
OP,
Measure the tube. Just because bushies leave the factory with commercial tubes doesn't mean that is what you have.
My Bushmaster .308 ORC purchased in May of 2010 was made in March 2010 and has been completely checked out. It is exactly what it is supposed to be.
OP,
Measure the tube. Just because bushies leave the factory with commercial tubes doesn't mean that is what you have.
average_shooter
Member
Can't speak as to the buffer tube, haven't checked mine with calipers, but mine's got to be about six or seven years old now and has all the same properties as far as I can tell. I did swap out the gas block for a low profile railed block though. MP barrel, staked key, etc., all good to go. I've read that Bushmaster isn't up to spec, but mine has worked flawlessly save for choking on crappy reloads I made when first getting into .223 reloading that would have jammed up any rifle.
Edit:
Curiosity got the best of me, so I grabbed the calipers, my tube measures 1.170" OD.
But to me this...:
... does not jive with this:
I would think the 1.170" tubes would therefore be thicker than the 1.150" tubes. Unless the internal diameter is machined out larger in the 1.170" tubes, but that doesn't make sense to me as I would think buffers and springs would be overly loose then.
Can anyone educate me on this?
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The real differences between milspec and commercial receiver extensions are:
milspec:
"impact extruded" one piece 7075-T6 aluminum-meaning forged. 7075-T6 is about 60% stronger than the more common 6061-T6.
Rolled threads that have nearly full engagement with the receiver threads. Rolled threads are significantly stronger than cut threads.
Proper hard anodized finish with dry lube inside.
Commercial:
Usually extruded 6061-T6 alloy which is weaker than proper 7075-T6 alloy.
Cut threads that are weaker and only engage the receiver threads 60-70%
Unknown anodized finish.
Pressed on, swaged or welded end cap.
Usually no inside lube treatment.
Commercial tubes may be completely adequate for most civilian uses but they are not the same as real milspec parts for hard use.
milspec:
"impact extruded" one piece 7075-T6 aluminum-meaning forged. 7075-T6 is about 60% stronger than the more common 6061-T6.
Rolled threads that have nearly full engagement with the receiver threads. Rolled threads are significantly stronger than cut threads.
Proper hard anodized finish with dry lube inside.
Commercial:
Usually extruded 6061-T6 alloy which is weaker than proper 7075-T6 alloy.
Cut threads that are weaker and only engage the receiver threads 60-70%
Unknown anodized finish.
Pressed on, swaged or welded end cap.
Usually no inside lube treatment.
Commercial tubes may be completely adequate for most civilian uses but they are not the same as real milspec parts for hard use.
Thinner side walls in a tube that externally measures 20 thousanths over the mil-spec tube will not cause any noticable degree of slop to the buffer or receiver spring.
20 thousanths is 14 microns greater than one half of a millimeter.(.020"=0.514mm)
A manufacturer can extrude a tube to any thickness & diameter desired or specified.
In the great big world half a millimeter it isn't much, but the thinner commercial tubes will bend or even collapse under a heavy stress load.
One of the reasons the cut threads on a commercial tube will only engage 60% of the receiver threads is because you can't cut deep threads on a thin tube.
20 thousanths is 14 microns greater than one half of a millimeter.(.020"=0.514mm)
A manufacturer can extrude a tube to any thickness & diameter desired or specified.
In the great big world half a millimeter it isn't much, but the thinner commercial tubes will bend or even collapse under a heavy stress load.
One of the reasons the cut threads on a commercial tube will only engage 60% of the receiver threads is because you can't cut deep threads on a thin tube.
kwelz
Member
The reciever extension/buffer tube is the part the stock attaches to.
Price is about the same.
Price is about the same.
Z-Michigan
Member
I don't believe anyone including Colt is making a forged buffer tube, even though it's my understanding that forging is one of two methods compliant with the TDP (mil-spec). All the quality tubes I know of are made by the impact extrusion method, which is similar but not identical (and is quite different from the conventional continuous extrusion method used for most or all commercial-size tubes). The BCM, LMT, Daniel Defense, and Stag mil-spec (CMT) tubes are to my knowledge made by this method and are the correct size, as of course is the Colt. The quality of the BCM and LMT tubes is equal in all respects, and LMT adds a dry-lube film that can be a plus for smooth operation of the stock. The Spike's tube is the correct size and I expect it's made by an approved method but I don't know that for sure. The DSA mil-spec size tube is made out of 6061 aluminum and is not forged or impact extruded, but is instead basically a commercial style tube made to the mil-spec size, only. I could be wrong about any one of these as hardly anyone but a few industry types at another forum know anything about these details or talk about it, so my sources are limited.
Go here and look down the page:
http://www.specializedarmament.com/catalog/AR_15_Parts-4-0.html
You will see that there are two types of receiver extension offered: extruded and forged.
As I understand it "impact extruding" is a form of forging.
Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_extrusion
And here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging
http://www.specializedarmament.com/catalog/AR_15_Parts-4-0.html
You will see that there are two types of receiver extension offered: extruded and forged.
As I understand it "impact extruding" is a form of forging.
Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_extrusion
And here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging
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HavelockLEO
Member
The last Bushmaster I had, about 2 years ago, had a commercial tube and I dont believe anythings changed in that time.
the buffer tube attaches the forend to the upper receiver right ?
kwelz
Member
Huh? That is the barrel nut. The buffer tube is the tube the recoil spring and buffer are contained in. It is also where the stock attaches
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