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"But guns were MADE for killing"

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Drjones, Dec 28, 2002.

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  1. Drjones

    Drjones member

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    I am having a hard time rebutting this.

    I can't quantify my thoughts.

    Help!
     
  2. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

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    "There's nothing wrong with killing, so long as the right people get killed." -Inspector Callahan


    It would be more accurate to say that guns were invented for killing. Many are still made for killing today, but can be used for other purposes. Some guns today, on the other hand, were made for punching holes in paper or busting clay pigeons. The fact that they could also be used for killing is something they share with, say, baseball bats or kitchen knives.
     
  3. PATH

    PATH Member

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    So are knives! So are baseball bats. Matches!

    Bic pens can cause serious injury or death! When does this nonsense end! Pretty much anything can be used in some fashion to kill somebody.
     
  4. BamBam

    BamBam Member

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    My guns were made for pleasure shooting and defense. The defense use would actually cause me NOT to be killed.

    Also, I've probably shot 100,000 rounds thru handguns. Body count is ZERO. Am I misusing them?
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2002
  5. RustyHammer

    RustyHammer Member

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    ..... and so were wives, they just take longer to achieve their goal!
     
  6. Dan Shapiro

    Dan Shapiro Member

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    Duh. Sure, I use guns for sport, but the main reason I got into firearms was self-defense. There are a lot of things that were not designed for "killing" that kill more people then guns.

    Cars
    Baseball bats and other blunt objects
    Etc

    Should we ban these?
    :rolleyes:
     
  7. Cal4D4

    Cal4D4 Member

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    Some people need killin'. If one is near me, I hope no one has to resort to an "area control weapon" to do the job.
     
  8. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    If they're going to make the argument that "guns are just killing tools, which makes their owners evil," then you should force them to state that our police and government workers who carry those "evil killing machines" are evil wanna-be killers.

    If they won't, then they're admitting that sometimes, lethal force is necessary, or even a good thing (at least compared to the alternatives). And there goes the argument.

    These are the same people who claim that you'll never need a gun because if something bad happens, you can just pick up the phone to call people with guns to help out (otherwise known as cops). My attitude is that if I'm ever in a situation where a "man with a gun" is required to come out safely, I can serve in the role in a more timely manner than some $8/hour city employee. No dig against cops -- the reason I'm not one is that it doesn't pay enough.
     
  9. Bergeron

    Bergeron Member

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    A guillitene and hangmans noose were made for killing. Guns were made to propel metal projectiles. Guns can be used for killing, but there's almost nothing that you CAN'T kill someone with. Just because you can kill someone with an object does not mean that it is "made for killing"

    The "Guns are made for killing" statement is usually made by an ignorant bliss-ninny that is trying to justify its beliefs.
     
  10. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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    Drjones, we need to frame the debate a bit more tightly. If someone says to me "But guns were made to KILL! :eek: ", I say "Well, WHAT were they made to kill?" We can then define hunting, target-shooting, warfare, self-defence, etc. It often boils down to the fact that the anti-gun type hasn't thought through his/her position at all - they just have a knee-jerk reaction that "killing is bad, guns are designed to kill, therefore guns are bad".

    You can then debate them. Is killing an animal for food bad? If it is, when did you last buy meat or meat products at Wal-Mart? Someone had to kill that animal for you, and by buying the product, you're defending, supporting, and paying for the killing! Is killing a rapist to stop his attack evil? If it is, are you willing to let him rape you (irrespective of your sex, BTW - many rapists aren't picky!) without resisting? If you are, good luck, but don't expect me to join you! Is it evil to kill an enemy soldier who is part of a cause fighting against your country? If so, how else do you suggest we stop that cause? Any effective, practical, working ideas? - no ideological pipe-dreams, please!

    Once you've sorted out these things, you can then get to the instruments involved. For example, you've agreed with your opponent that killing an animal for food is acceptable. Right, then - is there any moral or philosophical difference in how that animal is killed? Surely we'd agree that the quickest, most painless death possible is what's important? Well, then, what is quicker than a rifle bullet? An arrow or spear takes longer to kill; wolves or other predators take longer; what's the objection to the gun?

    By adopting this approach, you've deflected the argument from "Guns are designed to KILL!" to their real problem, which is that "Killing is EVIL!" Get to the root of the problem, past the instrument, and you're halfway there already.

    HTH.
     
  11. DeltaElite

    DeltaElite Member

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    Yup and I wouldn't have it any other way.
    I have no "sporting" guns, whatever the hell that is, my guns are for personal defense. :D
     
  12. Brian Maffei

    Brian Maffei Member

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    They were made to launch a projectile. Whether it kills anything is up to the user.
     
  13. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    What's wrong with that?
     
  14. sm

    sm member

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    I agree with Preacher

    I got into this arument with an instructor in College.
    Outside the maintence crew was hosing down the garden area and security was smoking and I asked permission before ...I set the trash can on fire.:D

    Instructor : "FIRE...thats a bad thing "
    Me: " Well define bad , I mean yeah someone could I guess commit arson, but I think Ugla and Ogla (primitive man and wife) thought the discovery was pretty well needed, warmth , light, cooking ...humm you British do cook food don't ya?..."
    Fire put out, Instructor put out , me happy :D
     
  15. voilsb

    voilsb Member

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    yeah, guns might have *originally* been made to kill. but so were knives, boomerangs, javelins, bows/arrows, baseball bats (aks clubs). but what do they all have in common other than that? they've all developed additional uses. knives turned out to be really useful tools. boomerangs are fun. javelins are in the olympics (so is archery and shooting, IIRC), baseball bats are in baseball.

    guns have become tools to demonstrate the shooter's patience, calmness, and skill in target shooting. they can provide food. protect a family. keep the government in check.
     
  16. 3 gun

    3 gun Member

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    And the problem with this is…? We are far down the food chain if we have to give up our tools. The weak are at the mercy of the strong if we have to give up our tools. Most things can be misused, that's not a valid reason to question its purpose for existence.












    edit: spell check works fine, I need a proof reader!:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2002
  17. Jeff OTMG

    Jeff OTMG Member

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    Brian is correct. A gun is only designed to launch a projectile of some material at some velocity. HOW and in what way that design is employed has nothing to do with the gun itself. This is a key component in the lawsuits against the gun industry. The gun is not responsible for the deaths. It is working exactly as design. It is sucessfully expelling a projectile. The direction that projectile travels is not up to the gun, but the user. How do you think well casing are perforated? They drill a well, set the steel casing, and there a 'gun' (actually kind of looks like a gun) that is sent down the hole to the depth of where the good water is. The 'gun' fires projectiles through the casing allowing the water to flow in. This is only one way to do this, there are others like setting the casing with screens in place set to the correct depth. It all depends on use for the water and expense.
     
  18. Vladimir Berkov

    Vladimir Berkov Member

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    Lots of things are made for killing. Most of them are available without a background check, guns are not.

    A sharpened stick can be made for killing. Should we ban sharpened sticks?
     
  19. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Member

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    Yea, and a spoon made Rosie O'Donell fat right?
     
  20. Nanook

    Nanook Member

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    Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than any of my guns have. Or any of the guns of everybody I know. Does this mean cars are made for killing?
    Let's ban Chevys, "It's for the children" :rolleyes:
     
  21. BogBabe

    BogBabe Member

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    My favorite response is "And what's wrong with that?" Sometimes killing is not only necessary, but good -- and in those cases, you want something that's made for killing.

    Other responses:

    1. Cars aren't made for killing -- but they kill far more people. This indicates that cars are in fact far more dangerous than guns.

    2. My guns are all defective, because they've never killed anybody.

    3. 99.something percent of all guns never kill anybody.

    4. In 99.something percent of all defensive uses of guns, no one is killed. Guns do their job quite effectively without killing.

    5. If you call 911, you are calling men with guns -- which are made for killing -- to come help you.

    6. Guns are made to launch small projectiles at high speed. Some guns, indeed, are specifically made for target-shooting or and would be terrible at killing.

    7. In self-defense mode, guns are made for stopping the attack. If the attacker is so determined to commit violence on my person that only killing him will stop him, that's his fault, not mine, and I'm glad I have my "killing" gun to stop him.
     
  22. berettaman

    berettaman Member

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    "These guns were made for killin"
    "and that's just what they'll do"
    "one of these days these guns are gonna"
    "be taken away from you"

    :D
     
  23. Stephen A. Camp

    Stephen A. Camp Moderator In Memoriam

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    Hello. No, mine will not be.

    Best.
     
  24. GD

    GD Member

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    My favorite response to the statement "Isn't that rifle a dangerous killing instrument" was "You damn right it is!". Liberals believe that they can make Utopia on earth. For them, guns, cigarettes, SUVs, and a host of other "evils" denies them Utopia. You aren't going to change their minds. Just make sure you can exercise more control than they. If SHTF they will be at your door for protection or if their car stops on a highway, they will accept a ride in your SUV.
     
  25. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Yes. That's exactly why Little Jimmy wrote it down!:)
     
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