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Buyer Beware!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by MBane666, Aug 12, 2006.

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  1. MBane666

    MBane666 Member

    Mar 15, 2004
    I originally posted this piece on my blog, but I thought it was worth posting on THR.

    Michael B

    Buyer Beware!

    I'm sitting around tonight answering e-mails from the show; this week's episode looked at home invasions, with longtime LEO, world-class trainer, co-creator of the Steel Challenge and original Southwest Pistol League Combat Master Mike Dalton (his book is LIFE WITHOUT FEAR; read it) leading us through it.

    With one exception, the e-mail has been adulatory...Mike's a star!

    Of course, I want to mention the exception. The e-mail was from a person who by his/her own admission saw only the last few minutes of the show, where we showed how to "work" a real live house after explaining in great detail that YOU WILL IN ALL PROBABILITY LOSE and that it should only be attempted in the direst of circumstances, ie, you can't find one of your kids. I mean, I can tell you all day that if you can't find your kid you should still hole up and wait for the cops, but that's not going to happen, is it?

    Here's the e-mail:

    <<Just caught the tail end of an episode where you go over what to do during a home invasion.

    You are going to get people killed.

    I teach the concealed handgun classes here in [XXXX], and had my early training from [THE MILITARY].

    The way to survive a deadly force situation is to take every advantage you can, and give none in return. If you try to apprehend an individual who has entered your home under the scenario you describe on your show, and that person happens to be armed, homeowners are going to die as a result of your "expert opinions."

    The homeowner, while he's busy wondering if he can use deadly force, he could end up dead.

    You shoot the bastard first, thus making it impossible for him to initiate an attack against you. Then you deal with the legal aspects later. At least, you are alive.

    Be assured I won't go out of my way to watch your show again.>>

    Well, aside from the fact that he missed the entire point of the show — heck, he missed most of the show! — there's a point here I want to make.

    ANYBODY can be an instructor, and it's on you as the consumer of that instruction to pick and choose. When my Sweetie was ready to get her CCW, she had to attend an NRA Personal Protection Class given in the area. I haven't taken the PPC in ages, so I decided to sign up and take the class with her.

    The instructor in that class was also happened to be a former military guy, and he started the class with the words, "I can kill you with a gun, with a knife, with an arrow and with my bare hands, with a pencil...I am a dangerous man."

    Well, that goes against Michael's Universal Law of Dangerous People, to wit, any person who has to tell you he or she is dangerous isn't. If that person tells you he or she is dangerous 3 or more times, Alf the Wonder Beagle can take 'em. I have been priveleged to spend time with real modern day warriors, and not a single one of them — man or woman — has ever explained to me that he or she was a natural born killah!

    After about an hour of that crap — I stopped counting at 6 "dangerous man" declarations; lucky Alf wasn't with us — I told my Sweetie to do what she had to do to pass the class, but to ignore everything this blowhard moron had to say, lest he get her killed or jailed.

    While I personally think KILL 'EM ALL; LET GOD SORT 'EM OUT (or, to use the correct religious terminology from the Crusades, "Slay them all and the Good Lord will know his own") is okay as a retro-70s bumpersticker, it is perhaps not the best strategy in complex times.

    Suggesting you should just kill someone first, then "deal with the legal aspects later," is an excellent way to become Bubba-the-Lifer's live-in "girlfriend." No, let's not make it a joke...it's damned irresponsible. The use of deadly force is a huge responsibility — not just legally, but ethically and, for lack of a better word, spiritually. Those bullets you loose are on you, forever. The consequences of those bullets are also on you, forever. And if you kill somebody in a sutuation that the police and courts decide DID NOT warrant deadly force, you are likely going to spend the rest of your life paying for those pesky "legal aspects."

    I worry that with the huge glut of "instructors" in the market are offering strategies and tactics drawn from either military or police training, which are not appropriate in a civilian context. As my dear friend Denny Chalker says, the ideal way to "clear a room" is a grenade; it is, however, impractical for home defense scenarios.

    I close a lot of SHOOTING GALLERY episodes by urging you all to get training. Well, I need to add that you need to get good training from the right people I will personally stand behind any and every trainer or shooting school we present on SHOOTING GALLERY, but don't just take my word for it. Talk to other students; get on the Internet and see what other people say about the training...do at least as much research as you'd do on some hottie from MySpace you're hoping to ask out! This is your life we're talking about here!

    And if anybody tells you not to worry about those deadly force criteria and you can deal with the legal stuff later, don't walk — RUN! — in the other direction! You're in the presence of a...dangerous...man!
  2. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

    Aug 11, 2004
    somewhere on Puget Sound
    Hmm, well, I thought it was an excellent episode, as are most of your shows that spotlight various training facilities and trainers. Never been able to find glaring fault with any of the advice imparted by SG's guests.
    Gee, he sounds fully qualified, indeed, as we all know each state has such stringent requirements for CHL/CPL course instructors ... not too mention every branch of the military certainly trains each member how to deal with home invasion scenarios ...
  3. mec

    mec Member

    Dec 27, 2002
    "...I teach the concealed handgun classes here in [XXXX], and ..."
    So do I and it's nothing much to get all puffed up about.

    I haven't seen the show but I will say that your writing continues to be as entertaining as the time you blew the back porch off the house and lifted that bass out of the Mississippi. Going to have to watch the shooting gallery pretty soon.
  4. Tim Burke

    Tim Burke Member

    Dec 24, 2002
    I saw the show, and thought the advice was sound.

    Yeah, yeah, it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. But you probably ought to make sure those really are your only options before you do something stupid.
  5. 04SilverSCFX4

    04SilverSCFX4 Member

    Aug 4, 2005
    I'm just glad I don't live in a State that would even question whether or not a felon committing a burglary/home invasion deserves to be completely rehabilitated at the hands of the homeowner....

    Hell, don't even try Criminal mischief or arson at night in the great state of Texas.
  6. Walter

    Walter Member

    Dec 30, 2004
    I DIDN'T see the show. But anytime anyone starts informing me of
    how many ways he knows to kill a man (and yea, it is almost always
    a "he"), I tune out and walk away.

    I did some time in the military, got the training, spent some time in
    some hairy situations. I don't feel like I need someone to tell me how to
    "kill a man". In fact, I don't want to hear it.

    The laws are perfectly clear (well, somewhat, anyway) about justified
    shootings for CCW holders. There is NO need for "heroes" to gloat over
    their experiences to people who just want to get the class done, and get
    on with it.

    I bet this guy doesn't get much repeat business.

  7. Squidward

    Squidward Member

    Oct 21, 2005
    Friendly California
    Dare I say it?

    Knowledge is more powerful than your firearm.
  8. Travis McGee

    Travis McGee Member

    Jan 12, 2003
    NE Florida
    MB: I like how Ayoob puts it: Problem One (survive the shooting) and Problem Two (survive the legal process). Your tactics for One should lead to a good outcome for Two. Alive and in prison is not a happy outcome.
  9. pax

    pax Member

    Dec 24, 2002
    Washington state
  10. mustanger98

    mustanger98 Member

    Jun 23, 2004
    Union County, GA, CSA
    I've found from thinking things through to the point I have that there's way too many ways to do something stupid. Not just in home invasion scenarios, but in anti-terrorism and many other cases.

    Not a home invasion scenario, but I've seen news items that included film clips of Arabs "ululating" and this in the context of Islamic terrorists and their general types. (Not that I think all Arabs are al Quedas or Hezbollahs, but it's real easy for some people to get rattled and think "the terrorists are attacking" and "get Israeli" on 'em. But this ain't Israel either.) The problem is last week I found out that American Indians "ululate" too, but it's in a different pitch. Now, I recall right after 9-11, there were some ignorant angry people going around killing foreigners who wear turbans just because they looked Arab. Sound can be mistaken just like appearance and if I didn't know that detail, I wonder how many more don't know it. It's scary what a lack of knowledge will do. So there's a good many things we have to be careful not to mistake, just like a snake's markings. Sorry for the off-topic thing, but it's something to think about. Kill the wrong snake and you let too many rats live. Kill the wrong man or under the wrong circumstances and it goes as has been said.

    I'll also add that the proper tactics in a home invasion depends on the layout of your home. Not all homes are laid out the same as in the episode of SG. Some floorplans are much simpler and easier to see through and defend yourself in than others. That said, it made good sense to me. However, I agree that if you have a child you can't find, you won't be able to sit still and leave a defenseless child at the mercy of a thug. You might win and you might lose, but as a parent, you have to take that chance. If I were so lucky as to be a parent and then have the misfortune to face this situation, I figure I'd have to try. I think my parents would have for me if it had happened.
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