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Buyer Beware.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Captcurt, Jan 19, 2021.

  1. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

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    I got a consignment in the other day that I thought was a little strange. It was a H&R Handi-rifle with a new 6-24X50 Zeiss Conquest. I didn't pay much attention to it until one of my brain cells kicked in. What is a $1000+ scope doing on a $300 rifle? While checking the price of said scope I ran across an article about counterfeit Zeiss coming out of China. I knew about Counterfeit Leupolds but not Zeiss. Meanwhile the gun sold on GunBroker. I contacted the buyer, told him what we had and cancelled the sale. So if you run across a Zeiss on Ebay for $400 you might want to scroll on by.
     

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  2. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    What details gave it away as a counterfeit?
     
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  3. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

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    Yup, helping them to further refine their arms industry one cheap, short-sighted American consumer at a time so that when the CCP finally fights Americans face to face, they can benefit from our powerful market development.

    Buyer, and parents and grandparents beware indeed!

    Great heads-up, OP. Thank you. Didn't know about the leupolds either.

    Todd.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
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  4. NorthBorder

    NorthBorder Member

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    I wish I had known a few years ago when I thought I was getting a decent trade that included a Trijicon holo sight as part trade for a gun. Only it wasn't. I learned the hard way about Chinese knockoffs. Lesson learned. Not a terrible holo sight but it is not a Trijicon.
     
  5. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

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    About our third or fourth round of purchases from an authorized Trijicon distributor, we got ChiCom crap that was quite hard to tell if you weren't actually looking. The first return on a MilSpec ACOG had me baffled. Eventually got trijicon involved and they nuked the distributor.

    Everything was right on the outside but performance let the cat outa the bag and then trijicon looking inside sealed the fate.

    Todd.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
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  6. NorthBorder

    NorthBorder Member

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    The give away was when I found another Trijicon for sale on the web with the same serial # as mine.
     
  7. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    China orders genuine parts, reverse engineers it, and makes it cheaper. They do it for sights, smart watches, virtually anything. Sometimes the copy is really good, other times not so much. I keep seeing knock off Magpul polymer sights on Wish for $8. I know they are knock offs. I use reliable red dots so they would be backup only so it is tempting.
     
  8. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    Ebay is darn near nothing but Chinese knockoffs. However, be carefull on Amazon too.

    I once got suckered on a Chicom knockoff of a Sypderco PMII. (Amazon) The real kicker was i paid the regular price!!
     
  9. Craig_VA
    • Contributing Member

    Craig_VA Contributing Member

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    Ran into this same problem on Amazon looking for Uplula magazine loaders. You can find cheap FAKE MagLula loaders, copies of the true UpLula product. Easy guess where they are made.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
  10. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

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    1st was the rifle it was on. This was a used Handi that showed some scratches and the lockup was loose. $300 rifle at it's best. The scope looked new. I saw the article about counterfeits while finding the cost of the scope. They started at over a grand, but this particular model was not listed. Upon comparing the features such as shape of Objective and turret caps, nothing matched what was on the Zeiss website. Plus there was no origin printed on the scope. I didn't call Zeiss with the serial number, but I would bet yesterdays pay that it was Chinese.
     
  11. Waveski

    Waveski Member

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    It should be clarified : MagLula is a bonafide privately held company based in Israel.
    There are incidents of Chinese MagLula knock-offs on the market , but it would be unfair to characterize MagLula products as cheap and/or Chinese knock-offs of UpLula.
     
  12. Craig_VA
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    Craig_VA Contributing Member

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    Thank you. Yes, I edited my post to clarify FAKE Maglulas.
     
  13. rabid wombat

    rabid wombat Member

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    Any respected brand name product is subject to counterfeits. The reason is the premium the brand carries over the “generic”. The old adage, “it if looks too good to be true” is true.
     
  14. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    Ive got and had "real" $500 Aimpoints on $250 AK's and $300 AR's. Its not what cost what that makes the package, its what you get out of the combination. ;)

    Unfortunately these days, "everything" is probably a knock off, even the real stuff. :)
     
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  15. JCooperfan1911

    JCooperfan1911 Member

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    The Chinese knock offs really burn me up. Those filthy scum pumping out stuff to ruin the reputation and give a poor quality? Sad.
     
  16. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    Not all the Chinese stuff is junk. I have a couple of Benchmade knives, and a couple of their Chinese "copies". Side by side, you cant really tell them apart, unless you know exactly what youre looking for, and even then, its still hard to tell. All came in the exact same boxes, with the exact same paperwork.

    Ive often wondered if what we think we are buying as "American Made", isnt, and that companies really arent just subbing things out and passing them off as made here.
     
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  17. magyars4

    magyars4 Member

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    I'd not buy anything voluntarily from the chi-cos or the iranians.
    ccp is our enemy they have said so, and they have nukes aimed at us.
    I don't support our enemies. Foreign or domestic
     
  18. cjwils

    cjwils Member

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    "I have a couple of Benchmade knives, and a couple of their Chinese "copies". Side by side, you cant really tell them apart...."

    I suspect that the quality of steel in a copy is lower, even if you cannot see a difference. That would make the value of the copy significantly lower.
     
  19. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    I dont know about that.. Having never owned a PMII, when I received my knockoff.. Instantly I was "who the F would pay $$$$$ for this piece of crap".
     
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  20. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    A company I worked for in the past imported rubber belts (industrial v belts, automotive belts of all types, etc) and had a small warehouse as the only place on American soil where the product was handled. Every one of them said USA on it, and got packaged in America. I don’t know where they actually came from but I’m betting it was China. Legally they did the bare minimum of what could be sold as made in America, and it was a shameful thing... much like the division i actually worked for.
     
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  21. Grizzly2

    Grizzly2 Member

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    You won't be happy with them, especially if you ever REALLY need your back up sights for very long. But they do sort of work but you will never know which shop is making them and what the quality may be. I'm sure this is a cottage industry for many little guys over there.

    A few years ago I tried some metal sights and they wouldn't even stand up straight and wobbled around. Terrible. Did get a refund and they said don't bother sending them back.

    On my Christmas list I included a relatively inexpensive ($80. model of a real Japanese knife for the kitchen with a steel a bit better than VG-10 and semi-stainless. I guess somewhere along the line they overheard me saying I'd like a Damascus chef knife someday. So they ordered one on line. Pretty thing and they claim it to be VG10 but who knows. No name on it and it is a decent knife for someone who just wants a chef knife for the kitchen. But it's heavy and thick like many store bought knives and I have nicer much older carbon steel chef knives with much better grind lines and much lighter while being larger. But, it was a gift and I'm using it. I'm actually curious to see how long it will keep a decent edge with steel touch ups. You never know with Chinese knives and what steel may be used regardless of what they list it as. Occasionally you might get a good one which has been tested on line, but most of the stuff isn't worth having.
     
  22. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    There seems to be a pretty broad quality span with the Chinese stuff. Ive bought stuff that was "cheap", and obviously not all that great quality-wise, and Ive bought stuff that has been great, and paid more for it. Even in China, you still get what you pay for.

    I think a lot of people, and especially gun people, are just "cheap" too. You see it all the time, and they are usually the ones who bitch the most about the "cheap" piece of crap they bought and it failed or was up to their standards. Then they go buy another one.

    More often than not, they are the same people who complain that "good" stuff costs so much, and still seem to be willing to keep buying cheap junk, over and over, and seem happy to keep bitching.

    My old man used to say, only rich people can afford cheap stuff. Never really understood it clearly, until I started getting into red dot sights. If I had back the money I wasted on "cheaper" (they werent cheap) good name sights, Id have a couple of more Aimpoints.

    Id be willing to bet, a lot of big name companies have their stuff made in places like China, simply because its a lot cheaper for them and the profit margin is so much greater. Just cause it says Made in the USA really means nothing. How do you really know?
     
  23. Bittereinder

    Bittereinder Member

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    Just an idea to consider: verify the serial number for any used higher-end scope. The price may be too good to be true, but the price also may seem reasonable but you could still be defrauded.

    I've only had to deal with this once but it was a smooth process. I had a nice silver Leupold scope that came with a used rifle. After further consideration, I decided that the scope didn't look right on any of my rifles, and I just wanted to sell it for what I paid for it. The buyer who wanted it asked me if I was sure it was genuine, and I honestly said I hadn't even considered the possibility. I called Leupold myself and they confirmed that the serial number was genuine, and also gave the number to the buyer so he could check himself. Pretty quick to do during business hours.
     
  24. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

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    There was a report on the tube a few years back about China producing a knockoff of Calaway golf clubs. They sold for about half price. When the Supervisor of the Chinese manufacture was asked how long it would take to tool up and have something like that into production. He answered, "One Week."
     
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  25. DustyGmt

    DustyGmt Member

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    Yup, beware of Amazon. They were a significant source of the phony leupolds and I can't count how many people I've heard that got a knockoff knife from amazon. The Chinese are quite clever and industrious sob's, one small 2-3 man operation can impact thousands of people....
     
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