Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Buying a pistol from a private owner? How do I do it legally?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by 101, May 22, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 101

    101 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    Can somebody please help me out? I'm 18 and live in Michigan (the worst state in America) so I cant legally buy a pistol from a gun shop until I'm 21. So that leaves me to one thing, buying a pistol from a private owner. Who is considered a private owner? Pawn shops? None of my relatives own any handguns that I would buy. Who do I go to? And also, where do I go to get it registered for open carry? Is there any other process that I have to go through?

    And btw, in case any of you are wondering, I have a perfect record. Not even a single traffic ticket. I'm just saying that to ease peoples minds on this forum.

    So any info or step by step process to help me legally buy and register one for open carry would be great, thanks.
     
  2. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    4,261
    Location:
    Plano, Texas
  3. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,536
    Location:
    Central PA
    Wow. Slow down. Take some time to educate yourself about the laws that affect your gun rights before you dive in.

    First off, FEDERAL law says that no Federal Firearms License holder (that's a gun dealer) can sell a firearm to anyone under 18 years of age or sell a handgun to anyone under 21 years of age. (US Code Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, Section 922, (b)(1) )

    A private owner is anyone who is not operating a business to sell firearms. A pawn shop that sells firearms is still a licensed dealer. You'll need to find a private citizen who has something you want for sale. That person must be a resident of your state as no person-to-person transfers of a firearm can take place across state lines or the buyer and seller be committing two federal felonies.

    Here are what appear to be the relevant portions of the text in dogtown tom's link:

    There is no contest that Michigan is not even close to being in the running to be the worst state in the union for gun laws, but this is a pile of hassles no one should have to deal with. Still, it doesn't look too bad. Really just one form and a true-false test. I've seen worse! ;)
     
  4. 101

    101 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    Thanks but this still doesn't answer all of my questions. Where can I go to buy a pistol from a private seller? Btw I couldn't understand what they are trying to say on those websites because they abbreviated every damn word, and used code that normal people don't understand. I don't speak lawyer. I speak English.
     
  5. iibao

    iibao Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Texas
    Well, that's in every state. :neener:
     
  6. 101

    101 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    Sorry my computer is slow, I was replying to the first guys post btw.
     
  7. rm23

    rm23 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    282
    Location:
    I hate NY... so I moved to Texas!
    Michigan has shall issue CCW, open carry, no AWB and NFA stuff. You must be crazy.
     
  8. 101

    101 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    I guess Ill just call the Michigan government and hopefully they wont speak lawyer language. Ill ask them how to acquire the following : An MCPL, TDHPP, PLEA, and an MPSQ (Whatever those are) .
     
  9. 101

    101 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    This has turned out to be more complex than rocket science.
     
  10. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,536
    Location:
    Central PA
    Sorry, I don't know anyone in your state who's selling a pistol.

    Seriously...you need to find a private individual who is selling one. Check your local classified ads. Check the online gun auctions for things available near you. See if there's a Michigan shooters' online forum with a BUY/SELL/TRADE page. Heck, look here at THR in our B/S/T section and see if there are any Michigan sellers. Go to a gun show and look for folks walking the aisles with guns for sale. (No, the guys at the tables are most likely dealers and can't help you.)

    There are lots of folks on this very board who do almost all of their gun-trading face-to-face. But it isn't as simple a thing as just going to your local gun store and asking them to get you a new whatever-you-want. You'll have to do some leg work and you'll have to be willing to choose from whatever folks happen to be selling.

    Seriously? You couldn't figure that out? :scrutiny: To understand firearms law it's pretty important that you practice reading such things. They aren't really all that complicated.

    Here's a simplification to get you started:
    Clearer now?
     
  11. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,536
    Location:
    Central PA
    I've deleted some completely incorrect information about federal laws.

    Folks, be careful that you actually understand the law -- and can actually provide legal citations to back up your statements -- before giving legal advice.
     
  12. iibao

    iibao Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Texas
    I thought Sam1911, explained it very clearly in the first post.
    What don't you understand ? :confused:
     
  13. 101

    101 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    I guess sam1911 explained it with that quote. All I really need is a ten day handgun purchase permit. Then Ill try my luck at local gun shows and try to find local sellers on websites. Thanks.
     
  14. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    4,587
    Location:
    MN
    After taking care of your states requirements which basicaly amounts to getting a permit to purchase, even when buying from a private person, you can look in the papers for handguns that are for sale, or more likely, you might try to time your permit to purchase with an upcoming auction that has handguns on it.

    Most private sellers don't need to advertise their guns for sale - there is always a willing buyer if the price is reasonable. ( check the boards at the local range) That's why I think the best bet is to starting looking at household. or other auctions selling private firearms in your area.

    Read post #3 they are spelled out there.
     
  15. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,536
    Location:
    Central PA
    Wow. This is getting tiresome. I've deleted some more completely incorrect information about federal laws.

    FOLKS, before ANYONE posts AGAIN that it is illegal to purchase a handgun before you are 21 ... THAT IS FALSE.

    Please read the federal laws -- which I cited for you above -- and your state laws on the matter.

    In most states it is perfectly legal for an 18-20 year old to purchase and own a handgun. They simply may not buy one from a Federal Firearms License holder -- a gun dealer, pawn shop, gunsmith, or other company in the business of selling firearms.
     
  16. Jim K

    Jim K Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    17,566
    I do not live in Michigan, but since there is a ten-day limit on the permit, I don't see how you can get the permit, then depend on finding a seller in ten days.

    Wouldn't you first find someone with a gun you want for sale, give him a down payment to hold the gun, and then apply for the ten-day permit? After you get it, you come back and complete the transaction.

    Jim
     
  17. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,536
    Location:
    Central PA
    Jim, thanks. I was going to say something like that. Looks like the permit would be a same-day kind of thing. (Anyone from Michigan want to say whether it is issued right when you pass the test or does it take a few days?)

    I'd wait on the permit until I've found a gun that looks promising and spoken to the seller. Then go get the permit. I'd think it would be pretty optimistic to go get a permit to purchase -- betting that you'd find something you like for sale privately in the next 10 days.

    I'd anticipate having to spend a month or three (...or six...) searching for something I'd really want.
     
  18. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,536
    Location:
    Central PA
    101, I'll give you one more piece of advice. Don't expect everyone you meet to be completely on-board with this. As you've probably noticed, even here in this thread on THR of all places, not everyone knows just what the law is and a seller always has the right to refuse to sell to you -- EVEN IF their reason is a misunderstanding of the law.

    There are a very few points of law that seem to catch even gun folks by surprise because the law is actually more lenient than what they've been conditioned to expect.

    Aside from the fact that 18-20 year olds CAN own handguns, folks often don't know that:
    * face-to-face transfers are even legal
    * there is no (federal) form or other paperwork required for making a private sale of a firearm
    * that 18-year-olds can open-carry a handgun in some states even before they are legally allowed to get a concealed license or permit
    * that it is legal to ship a firearm to a private individual (not a dealer) in the same state -- and, in fact, to do a private sale without ever having physically met the buyer
    * that (according to federal law at least) you can purchase a long gun in any state in the country
    ... and a number of other little "pleasant surprises" where firearms law isn't quite so constrictive as we assume.

    Unfortunately, just because something is legal doesn't mean that you'll be able to convince a seller, dealer ... and sometimes even a police officer (!) of that fact.

    So, if you find the perfect pistol for sale and you contact the seller and explain your situation, don't be too discouraged if you can't convince them that they are allowed to sell to you. In this one case, having to get that purchase permit might actually help. You at least have some documentation that the local authorities have approved you to purchase, so your age must not be an issue.

    I hate to find positive sides to bad laws ... but it is what it is! ;)
     
  19. Wonder9

    Wonder9 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    Messages:
    133
    Location:
    Powell, OH
  20. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    42,982
    Location:
    Terlingua, TX; Thomasville,GA
    Enough for now...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page