C&R Eligible Pistol Cannot Ship to C&R FFL as it has been Restored?

[Snowdog]

So I am in the market for either a Colt 1903 or (preferably) Colt 1908 and have found something within my price range (a scant $1000 - 1200). However, the seller says he cannot ship this pistol, manufactured in 1921, to any C&R FFL holder as it has been "restored".

Have I missed something in the couple years since I've purchased anything C&R?

The frame is original and it appears the only restoration has been the finish.

What could the seller be referring to that I am unaware of?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Rudolph31]

Like many people, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. But many sellers are uncomfortable shipping to 03 FFL’s and will seize any excuse not to. But one outfit was nice enough waive the shipping to compensate for the inconvenience. Yours should too.

 

[AlexanderA]

Restoration does not change the status as a C&R. However, if you change the configuration, such as by sporterizing a milsurp, it does change the C&R status. If the conversion was done more than 50 years ago, it's a C&R in its new configuration.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Another vote for a person making stuff up. With that logic, things which were re-arsenaled at any time would not be C&R. For some reason many shops don't want to ship to C&R's now and simply make up reasons. When asked they usually state that "I can't verify your C&R like I can a standard FFL". Gee, since I thought I would commit a felony altering it and having something illegally shipped to my home with the expectation of getting away with that..........

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Another case of the C&R is not good enough for me bulldink. Run and don't walk away---if the seller is THAT unclear on the law regarding such weapons, how much does he likely know about Colt Model M's? For what it's worth, we LOVE our family heirloom type III 1903 and shoot it regularly. I know prices on these little gems have gone up, as have prices on grips and mags, but in your price range you might be very close to a nice un-restored pistol if you'd settle for one in .32 ACP---the .380's are scarcer as I'm sure you know. Regardless, I'd walk away from this guy if he refuses to accept your C&R. Just my .02....I honestly wish you luck in finding one---they are terrific guns and fitted together like a Swiss watch.

 

[OneFreeTexan]

Some people just like to play it safe, and don’t want the problems that ‘might’ be involved,,,,he says ‘restored’. You don’t know exactly what he means,,,the call is on his end,,,,,What’s $30 to a regular FFL going to do? Will it make it ‘unbuyable’ for you.
Why did we go into ‘attack’ mode on the seller? It’s his call on who he sells to.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I am voting that the seller is ignorant about whether the gun is C&R eligible. ATF does advise dealers and sellers to err on the side of "safety" if they have a "feeling" about a transaction.

There are plenty of people who know that a current C&R license is OK to sell and what constitutes a C&R eligible firearm.

If I had a C&R federal firearms license and I wanted to buy a C&R eligible gun for my collection, I am not sure I would want to do a transaction through an FFL as though it were a non-C&R gun.

Are not C&R holders required to keep a bound book of their C&R transactions, and wouldn't buying a gun through an FFL las if it were a modern or modernized gun then entering it in the bound book as a C&R be questionable?

 

[il.bill]

...

If I had a C&R federal firearms license and I wanted to buy a C&R eligible gun for my collection, I am not sure I would want to do a transaction through an FFL as though it were a non-C&R gun.

Are not C&R holders required to keep a bound book of their C&R transactions, and wouldn't buying a gun through an FFL las if it were a modern or modernized gun then entering it in the bound book as a C&R be questionable?

I previously had a C&R 03FFL and now hold an 01FFL as a firearm dealer. I was required to enter every C&R eligible firearm as an Acquisition in my 03FFL Bound Book that I acquired while holding that license, regardless of the means of acquisition (transferred from an individual, or from an FFL Licensee of any type). If I acquired a C&R firearm by filling out a Form 4473 and having a background check run, that firearm was entered in my bound book the same way as if AIM Surplus had shipped it straight to my front door. To me, it made no difference.

Ultimately the Seller calls the shots on the transaction and the Buyer has to decide if he wants to go through with it. Had the OP's Seller simply said "I do not want to transfer directly to an 03FFL holder", that would have been it - the Buyer would have had to choose whether to participate on those terms or walk away. The whole 'Restored' angle is a new one on me. It sounds like the Seller does not know what he is talking about - I never heard of that, but maybe he knows more than me.

I have had Sellers refuse to transfer to me on both my 03FFL and later my 01FFL and wanted me to fill out the Form 4473 with the Illinois waiting period. Others might accept my 01FFL but not take my Sales Tax Exemption Resale Certificate on the purchase. Each time it was up to me as the Buyer to decide how badly I wanted said firearm. It sucks for the OP, but it sounds like he has to make that decision on the Colt.

Hope it works out - that would be a nice addition to anyone's collection.

 

[GBExpat]

MMMmmmmm, Colt 1903s and 1908s ...

What could the seller be referring to that I am unaware of?

There are a LOT of folks out there, Dealer & otherwise, that just do not want to deal with an 03FFL ... for whatever reason.

I prefer the ones who will tell me that upfront rather than get creative with silly/stupid excuses as to why they cannot ship to me. That approach saves me time and, potentially, annoyance.

As soon as I know that they will not entertain shipping to my C&R, I can decide if the item is worth the additional cost & hassle of a Dealer Transfer.

Good Luck!

 

[ilbob]

A lot of 01 FFLs seem to not understand the rules about C&R licenses. If you really want the gun have it shipped to an 01-FFL. You are only out the transfer fee. Most times you can find an FFL who will do the transfer for < $25. On a $1200 collector's piece it does not seem like an insane amount of money.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

It has basically gotten to the point that there is no use for a C&R license. I've had one 6 years, and any gun I wanted to buy the seller refused to accept a C&R. (And I've walked away every time.)

 

[tark]

I guess I am lucky, but all the gun dealers near me recognize and accept my C&R license. I buy almost all my C&Rs through Simpson's in Galesburg, Ill. so no problem with them. Rock Island Auction Co., same deal. The only two recurring problems I used to run into were dealers that thought "it has to be on the list to be a C&R!" Just the opposite. The list is a list of exceptions to the 50 year rule.

And , yes, machine guns ARE C&Rs, but all NFA rules still apply.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

A lot of 01 FFLs seem to not understand the rules about C&R licenses. If you really want the gun have it shipped to an 01-FFL. You are only out the transfer fee. Most times you can find an FFL who will do the transfer for < $25. On a $1200 collector's piece it does not seem like an insane amount of money.

Where I am it is 2 trips to the dealer if it is a handgun, one to do the paperwork and a 2nd to get it after the waiting period, and $80 or more for the transfer. No, I wouldn't pass on an amazing item I really wanted at a sane price, but if it is something a bit more common and in the $400 range that $80 and the time to drive to the dealer twice does come into play.

I don't care much if someone has it in their sale listing that they don't accept a C&R and I drive on, I do put it on my watch list and make a point to buy nothing from them ever. If they want to make up silly rules I don't want to have anything to do with them.

On an different note, what other FEDERAL license do people opt to not accept?

 

[jonnyc]

Fortunately, most guys I've dealt with have accepted my 03. For those that don't, I've had a friendly 01 who just transfers them to me as a C&R without a fee, and I've worked in an 01 LGS for the last year. Yay for me!

 

[deadin]

and $80 or more for the transfer.

That's got to be one of the highest transfer fees I've heard of. (That doesn't also contain shipping. You did say you were doing the leg-work??)
I think I would avoid that dealer like the plague.....

 

[Sistema1927]

I found that my 03FFL wasn't worth having anymore, so I let is expire about a year ago after holding one from more than 20 years. My bound book has since gone into the shredder.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

That's got to be one of the highest transfer fees I've heard of. (That doesn't also contain shipping. You did say you were doing the leg-work??)
I think I would avoid that dealer like the plague.....

Pretty standard fee in md (hole) due to the hoops dealers have to go through here, some may be a little lower but they have to hold it for that period of time, do a pile of paperwork (4473 isn't enough here), and the state also charges $10. Also, lovely md does NOT recognize a C&R for handgun purchases within the state so a dealer can't simply opt to transfer it to me that way.

So, stay out of md if you appreciate your freedom much.

 

[deadin]

I found that my 03FFL wasn't worth having anymore

Depending on what your interest is, I don't see this. You only have to get one use from it and it will have paid for itself for 3 years.
(assuming a $30 transfer fee.)

 

[stchman]

One of the reasons I simply let my C&R lapse. Some websites used to give discounts for dealers and considered a C&R to be a dealer. This and I lost interest in the milsurp thing a long time ago.

 

[Sistema1927]

The discounts went away, the milsurp market dried up, and even when I found something that I could buy with it, 9 times out of 10 the seller didn't want to deal with a Type 03. Nope, it wasn't worth fooling with any longer, at least for me. YMMV.