Ca: Bullet/Case serialization could be final straw?

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A couple things:

1. I didn’t see the requirement for a serial number on the case . Did I miss that in the wording?
2. Would the cost of serializing ammo make it cheaper to put a number on all ammo instead of just left coast ammo?
3. Even with the manufacturing cost, I would think the cost of the bureaucracy for registering each and every sale would be far and away the highest expense. So assuming that other states sell the same serial numbered ammo, how could you tell it was unregistered in CA just by looking at it?
4. Does the law make old ammo illegal?
 
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Filing felony charges against someone in another state happens all the time. Try shipping hollow point ammo to New Jersey, or Hi Caps to California.
And exactly what happens if charges are filed in CA? If the CA AG filed felony charges against me in a CA court, I would laugh heartily and continue to sell products,safe in the knowledge that they had no jurisdiction to arrest me. I would consider them slightly more of a threat then Saudi Arabia sentencing me to death in absentia for mailing Bibles to Saudi citizens. I'd refuse to hand over customer lists if subpoena'd by a CA court,and I would expect my home state to protect my right to do business.
Keep in mind, that's theoretically what I'd do assuming my state (or Commonwealth) doesn't have provisions that prohibit this kind of interstate activity. Now, my revised question-do any states prohibit interstate sales of products that are illegal in the destination state?



any person who possesses in any public place any handgun
ammunition that is not serialized is guilty of an infraction
punishable by a fine not exceeding five hundred dollars ($500), or is
punishable as a misdemeanor.
That can explain why Californians might not buy,but why would the manufacturers or retailers stop selling?
For example, a similar penalty prohibits fireworks that fly or explode in the state of Virginia. Magically however, they are still purchasable by VA residents in WV,PA,SC and other states and are quite visibly in use by VA citizens every year around the 4th of July.
Jurisdiction is critical.....
 
Rough Draft Petition, short and to the point

Who would be the best to send this to for wide distribution beyond this forum? GOA? NRA? Anyway, here's my idea.

"Dear (Ammunition Manufacturer/ Distributor):

We, the undersigned, oppose California bill SB357 and its counterpart, AB 352, the Ammunition Serialization bills.

We, the undersigned, urge you to BOYCOTT sales of your product to the state of California entirely, to include government and law enforcement agencies, if it passes.

If you do so boycott sales to California:

We, the undersigned, promise to PURCHASE ONE-THOUSAND ROUNDS OF YOUR AMMUNITION, and furthermore
you will henceforth receive our exclusive patronage; as

We, the undersigned, promise to NEVER AGAIN purchase ammunition from manufacturers and distributors who do not boycott California.

Please note that We, the undersigned, reside outside the state of California.

Sincerely,

(we, the undersigned)
 
The passage of this goofy legislation would/should be a call for open, notorious and widespread civil disobedience. A massive march on Sacramento, each person holding aloft an unserialized round. Let 'em arrest us all. When we make bail, go back and do it again, and keep doing it until the system chokes.

How long would it take for them to understand what the next step might be, considering each person arrested is a gunowner?
 
And exactly what happens if charges are filed in CA? If the CA AG filed felony charges against me in a CA court, I would laugh heartily and continue to sell products,safe in the knowledge that they had no jurisdiction to arrest me.

Good luck. Last I checked all the states have extradition agreements. But hey, more power to you!!
 
3. Independent of the manufacturing cost, I would think the cost of the bureaucracy of registering each and every sale would be far and away the highest expense. So assuming that other states sell the same serial numbered ammo, how could you tell it was unregistered in CA just by looking at it?
This is the main reason why Arnold (even though he's a RINO) would veto it if it made it to his desk.
 
This "serilization of bullets and cartridge cases" is way over the top, even for the California Legislature, state bureaucracy and Attorney General, Bill Lockyer, who seems to be a prime mover of the thing.

If you have any access to the 10 June issue of the New Gun Week, see page 12 thereof, for comment headed SAAMI Statement Critical of California Bullet Serilization, and read carefully, remembering that the idiocy born in California sometimes heads both east as well as north.

The above mentioned idiocy, dangerous idiocy could find supporters in your state too. Beware.
 
I got this from a good source (a rep of our lobby) that ammo manufacturers WILL abandon PRK should this pass.

The ammo market is a very low profit market. Complying with this bill would require that all the manufacturers build NEW plants to make this ammo. The existing plants cannot be converted to comply.

A few people asked what happens to your old ammo. It does not become illegal, you just cannot remove it from your house. To remove it from your house is a crime.... so your stuck with it. Can't shoot it, can't trade it, can't sell it.

Reloading is also out unless it is serialized as well.
 
3. Independent of the manufacturing cost, I would think the cost of the bureaucracy of registering each and every sale would be far and away the highest expense.

As far as the mechanics, there is a system that automates it with barcodes on cases and boxes. The guy that developed it, (and patented it), has been lobbying to get this law passed.

So assuming that other states sell the same serial numbered ammo, how could you tell it was unregistered in CA just by looking at it?

Police would have access to the same technology. Individual serial numbers could also be entered into the database and checked.
 
I got this from a good source (a rep of our lobby) that ammo manufacturers WILL abandon PRK should this pass.


That's nice to hear, but seeing as how the govt and its JBT's are all exempt from the law (sorry, no disrespect intended to local LEO's) I'll bet a lot of money that the ammo manufacturers will still keep right on selling to the govt. as if nothing happened.
 
The ammo market is a very low profit market. Complying with this bill would require that all the manufacturers build NEW plants to make this ammo. The existing plants cannot be converted to comply.

I think it would just add a stage in the process. I don't think a new plant would be neccessary.
 
That's nice to hear, but seeing as how the govt and its JBT's are all exempt from the law (sorry, no disrespect intended to local LEO's) I'll bet a lot of money that the ammo manufacturers will still keep right on selling to the govt. as if nothing happened.

Folks, I'm 99% sure, LE would not be exempt. No use starting a class war on this one......
 
I cannot see anywhere in the bill where police are exempt. Of course, if you can show me, I'll agree with you.

As far as a new factory, I don't think that is out of line at all.

EDIT: That video is cool
 
The govt. is of course exempt!!!!

(g) Subdivisions (a) and (b) do not apply to the following:
(1) The possession, for purposes of investigation or disposition
of any nonserialized handgun ammunition by a forensic laboratory or
any authorized agent or employee thereof in the course and scope of
his or her authorized activities.
(2) The possession, for purposes of investigation, evidence, or
disposition, of any nonserialized handgun ammunition by any state,
county, city, or city and county agency charged with law enforcement
or the administration of justice or by any authorized agent or
employee thereof, within the course and scope of their official
duties.

(5) Possession by peace officers from other states during the
discharge of their official duties in California.
(6) Possession by members of the California National Guard during
the discharge of their official duties.

Source: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/bill/sen/sb_0351-0400/sb_357_bill_20050518_amended_sen.html
 
Two ways it says police are exempt:

1. They can possess unserialized ammo to lawfully dispose of it. It's dirt simple to just decide that using the ammo for their regular duty is an acceptable means of "disposal". Waste not, want not, right?

2. This little thing called "selective prosecution".

Trust me, if they don't want it to apply to police, then it won't apply to police, even if it doesn't include an explicit exemption.
 
Trust me, if they don't want it to apply to police, then it won't apply to police, even if it doesn't include an explicit exemption.


Very well said!

I really cannot believe that there are some here who are still so naive as to believe that the government would actually abide by its own laws!
 
If anyone should be forced to use serialized ammo it should be LEO. Think of how many shots LEO fires (like in Compton last month) that are untraceable.
 
Selective prosecution I could go with.

But why would they put this in:
(5) Possession by peace officers from other states during the

If Cali LEO was exempt? Why wouldn't they just say any Peace Officer?

The NG is understandable, though.
 
The point is this, you may have non-serialized ammo in your possesion on your own property, you may not have non-serialized ammo off your own property. There is NO provision for transporting non-serialized ammo to the range, or for using it at the range. If you are found with it, you are liable before the law. Doesn't matter if it's factory ammo or home brew, I check because I cast and load my own. I have sufficient quantities on hand, but if this takes effect, I can't use it any where but on my own property - I live in town and I don't think the community ordinances will allow for discharging firearms within city limits. So the law has the effect of disarming me, unless I buy the serialized ammo at whatever the going rate is and have my id checked and recorded at the time I buy it. I am unaware any provision for out of state CCW to bring non-serialized ammo into the state either. It's just whole big can of worms and it's going to lead to lots of otherwise innocent, ordinary people becoming the subjects of prosecution, and some might say persecution.
Bob
 
The point is this, you may have non-serialized ammo in your possesion on your own property, you may not have non-serialized ammo off your own property.


No, my understanding is that, under this bill, after July 1 2007, posession at all of any unserialized ammo will be a crime, no matter where it is.
 
The bill would require, commencing July 1, 2007, that
handgun ammunition be serialized. The bill would specify the nature
of the serialization and provide various exceptions to certain
prohibitions in the bill. Manufacture, transfer, and possession, as
specified, of nonserialized handgun ammunition after that date would
be an offense, as specified.
 
Reloaders are not exempt, which means we'd have to buy our bullets pre-serialized; no more casting our own, either.

Not only that all bullets will require a tax so its a double wammy. With no savings why will people reload?

This is why this bill needs to die a terrible death!
 
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