Ca: Bullet/Case serialization could be final straw?

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Trust me, if they don't want it to apply to police, then it won't apply to police, even if it doesn't include an explicit exemption.
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Step away from the aluminum foil guys......

There will be plenty of watchdogs in the form of trial attorneys who would have a field day if departments tried to issue non serialized ammo. No city in their right mind would want to be exempt from this.
 
The Poh-leece want exempted from NJ's smart-gun laws because Smart-Guns are a stupid idea from a functionality standpoint. PDs will stand in line to adopt serialized bullets because it will remove (in theory) the guesswork behind whose bullet goes where, with no impairment of functionality.

Mike
 
The bill needs to die a terrible death because it's only reason for being is disarming normal, ordinary civilians. You know, the folks who pay their taxes, vote, buy things, raise children, help their neighbors. This legislation is ONLY aimed at those people. It is about people who think they are our betters telling us how to live and what to do. The saddest thing is most people either don't know or don't care that this is happening. Our rights are not rights, they are privliges that can be given or taken away at the whim of those in power. This is the very antithesis of the kind of society our founding fathers fought and bled and died for.
Bob
 
Zundfolge

What makes you think California would eat the cost, they'd slap a tax on the sale to cover the costs and then some. :cuss:
Remember R.I.N.O.s have never seen a tax or regulation they don't like. Gee sounds like another party doesn't it :eek:
 
For those of you in CA, I believe RileyMc had a fine idea:

The passage of this goofy legislation would/should be a call for open, notorious and widespread civil disobedience. A massive march on Sacramento, each person holding aloft an unserialized round. Let 'em arrest us all. When we make bail, go back and do it again, and keep doing it until the system chokes.
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Maybe the CRPA would be interested?
 
Didn't the whole idea pop up FOR police?
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yes, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that the politicians are morons who will try to force unwanted and stupid stuff down the cops' throats too. The police in NJ pitched such a fit that they were exempted. To their shame, I might add. They should have just tried to scuttle it, period.

Mike
 
jefnvk

Well, I know in Ohio, we have R.I.N.O.s all over the place, taxes have sky rocketed, administrative rules, regulations and the like have done the same.
Spending, well let's say it's far outpaced inflation and even the revenues. This was happening even with the boom of the 90's.

One of our true Republicans said "we don't have a revenue problem, but a spending problem". I liked that.
 
Coronach

Why should they. Any group with political clout will always seek to enforce it's will on others. The key is power, once their wishes are met, it doesn't matter about anybody else's. Remember, NJ LEOs can use their service pistols, so what's in it for them? Nothing, why spend political capital for somebody else?
 
Quote:
So assuming that other states sell the same serial numbered ammo, how could you tell it was unregistered in CA just by looking at it?



Police would have access to the same technology. Individual serial numbers could also be entered into the database and checked.
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What I'm getting at is it would seem to open up a huge black market for serial numbered ammo from other states. Even if you were firing it at the range, it would appear legal. Unless the police scan every box of ammo they come across they would have no reason to suspect that the non registered ammo was in fact not registered. After all it is numbered. Even in California it would seem the cops have better things to do with there time than go to the range and scan the ammo boxes of all the customers.
 
You know, we always expect that the manufacturers are going to fight our battles for us. Other than a few small independently owned companies, it's never going to happen. They are publicly traded companies, with a responsibilty to their shareholders.
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I'm sure that some manufacturers would go for this, at least at the beginning. Unfortunately for them, the law of unintended consequences applies.

1. The companies make PRK-only ammo and sell it at a huge profit...they would think that was good.
2. Until they get sued as part of a wrongful shooting case...and don't say they are exempt, you can sue anybody for anything. And in Kali the anti-gunners would win. They are suing the manufacturers of serialized guns...why not the manufacturers of serialized ammunition?

Cooler heads may prevail...someone has to be thinking about the long term effects of this. All it would take is the few companies who made ammo to decide not to do so after after problems with cost and liability...just like the 8 out of 10 companies that went out of the flu vaccine business because of the cost of liability...ooops, no vaccine during flu season.

If these ammo companies were run by Ronnie Barrett, Kali would be SOL. Then again, if their shareholders are not Kali residents they might tell the company to let Kali pound sand.

Oh, and don't get me started about Smart Guns in NJ...the details of the law are a nightmare.
 
dpesec said:
Zundfolge
What makes you think California would eat the cost, they'd slap a tax on the sale to cover the costs and then some.
:cuss:
Remember R.I.N.O.s have never seen a tax or regulation they don't like. Gee sounds like another party doesn't it :eek:
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Schwarzenegger vetoed the law that would have registered ammo sales once already ... part of his rational was that it would cost too much.

This legislation falls under the same line of thinking.


Still ... Eternal Vigilance is the price of Liberty
 
What I'm getting at is it would seem to open up a huge black market for serial numbered ammo from other states
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Ok, you guys talking about smuggling SN'd ammo from other states are missing one obvious point. That stuff is probably going to be registered, too. Else, why would they sell it in the other states?
 
Until they get sued as part of a wrongful shooting case...and don't say they are exempt, you can sue anybody for anything. And in Kali the anti-gunners would win. They are suing the manufacturers of serialized guns...why not the manufacturers of serialized ammunition?
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Excellent point.

Eventually no ammo in Cali.
Good guys unarmed. BGs go crazy. Good guys react at the ballot box or vote with their feet or both.

Eventually the pro-serialized pols get the boot.

S-
 
2. Until they get sued as part of a wrongful shooting case...and don't say they are exempt, you can sue anybody for anything. And in Kali the anti-gunners would win. They are suing the manufacturers of serialized guns...why not the manufacturers of serialized ammunition?
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The manufacturers are anything but exempt, they get sued on a regular basis now.
 
Didn't catch if someone mentioned this: I am willing to bet the bullet SN will have to match the case SN. If this is the case, reloading is going to go away, as the new bullets will have to have different SN's. The only way to work this situation would be to have bullet and case registration SN's separate but keyed together. Also, the private party selling of any bullets or casings will have to be transferred just like guns. This is the only way to keep everything correct. I'm sure there will also be a transfer tax. In addition, I did not see a requirement for reporting the use or disposal of ammunition. If there is none, the amount of SN's registered in the DB will become astronomical in a very short time. We're talking BILLIONS of numbers here. *** happens if the DB crashes? Are thousands SOL?

BTW: That would be a real shame if the system crashed... ;)
 
I predict wholesale theft of ammo or smuggling for the criminal market. That, or there will be a huge rise in shotgun murders. This would, of course, necessitate the passing of laws requiring the serializing of individual shodgun pellets.

CA DOJ to ammo manufacturer (Lumberg voice) "Yeah... We're gonna need you to put numbers on bird shot... Did you get that memo?

Ammo manufacturer: "I deleted it. Engraving birdshot is absurd."

CA DOJ: "Yeah... We'll send that memo again."

Ammo manufacturer: "GO F**** YOURSELF!"
 
If this is the case, reloading is going to go away, as the new bullets will have to have different SN's.
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My cast bullets don't have any serial numbers at all.
 
Serialization requires each box of cartridges to have its own serial number. Matching numbers would then be engraved inside cases and on the bases of bullets.
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This is a hoot. Unenforcable.

So you buy your ammo at Wally World, dump it into a zip lock bag and discard the box in the WW trash can.
Time passes. You are at the range.

John Law walks up to you and asks, "Is that ammo serialized?"
You respond, "Yes".
Mr. Law says, "Prove it."
You say, "How?"
He says, "Show me the inside of your case and the base of its bullet."
You say, "Get a warrant."

What a joke.
 
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