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CA: Don't bring a club to a knife fight.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Chipperman, May 11, 2005.

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  1. Chipperman

    Chipperman Member

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    MILLBRAE
    2 teens arraigned in attack on couple
    Adults at bus stop refused to buy alcohol for youths
    Ryan Kim, Chronicle Staff Writer
    Wednesday, May 11, 2005

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    Two Daly City teenagers who allegedly attacked a Millbrae couple after they refused to buy them alcohol were arraigned Tuesday on charges of attempted murder, assault and battery for their roles in the Saturday morning incident that left a third accomplice dead from a stab wound.

    Authorities say Marco Bolanos, 19, Michelle Cardarelli, 18, and 20-year- old Dwayne Beverly were driving down El Camino Real at 6:45 a.m. after a night of partying when they pulled over at a Safeway supermarket. They asked an unidentified Millbrae couple waiting for a bus to buy them alcohol, said Martin Murray, a San Mateo County prosecutor.

    When the couple refused, the three suspects got out of the car and began attacking the man and woman, Murray said. He said it was unclear what words had been exchanged, but the suspects indicated they felt disrespected by the couple.

    "It's a senseless crime," Murray said. "You're at a bus stop at 7 a.m. on your way to work. You don't expect that kind of violent reaction. It's not the kind of activity we expect to see in sleepy Millbrae on a Saturday morning."

    Murray said Beverly and Bolanos had begun attacking and punching the male victim, who responded by brandishing a 3 1/2-inch pocket knife. He said the suspects then retrieved a Club, a device used to prevent auto thefts.

    During the ensuing fight, the male victim, who was hit with the metal club, stabbed Beverly in the chest, authorities said. Sometime during the incident, Bolanos also used the Club against the female victim, hitting her over the head numerous times, Murray said. He said Cardarelli had punched the female victim and held her down while Bolanos attacked her.

    A short time after Beverly was stabbed, the three suspects got back into their bronze Toyota Camry and fled with Beverly at the wheel, Murray said. Police found the trio on the Millbrae Avenue overpass at Highway 101 after Beverly collapsed. He was taken to San Francisco General Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

    The female victim was also taken to San Francisco General with head injuries but was released later that day. Her husband, who sustained injuries to his arms, will not be charged in the case, Murray said.

    "At this point we don't anticipate filing charges against him unless new information develops," Murray said. "At this point it appears to be self- defense."

    Police said they would not release the names of the two victims out of fear for their safety.

    "There is some gang-related information we are looking at, possibly that the suspects are affiliated with a gang out of San Francisco," said San Mateo County Sheriff's Lt. Lisa Williams.

    Bolanos was arraigned in San Mateo County Superior Court on charges of attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and battery. He did not enter a plea. Cardarelli was arraigned on one count of battery and pleaded not guilty Tuesday. Both were assigned attorneys through the county's private defender program.

    Bolanos, who faces up to life in prison if found guilty on all counts, was in San Mateo County Jail without bail. The bail for Cardarelli, who faces up four years if convicted, was set at $25,000.
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    Link: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/05/11/BAGUHCN1DM1.DTL
    -----------------

    Glad the victim is not going to be charged and the woman appears to be ok.
    Victims were correctly identified here, kudos to the reporter.

    I wonder how much differently this would read if the man had defended himself with a gun instead.
     
  2. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    Too bad he didn't have a gun--or at least a bigger knife. My understanding is that California is pretty non-restrictive on folding knives. He could have been carrying a 6" folder. Just pulling it out might have ended things.

    In TX, the dead criminal's buddy would be charged with first degree murder for being involved in a felony where someone died as a direct result.
     
  3. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

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    Actually, I think I'd rather have a club than a pocket knife in a fight.
     
  4. zahc

    zahc Member

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    I was thinking the same thing.
     
  5. El Rojo

    El Rojo Member

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    Why couldn't three thugs attack my wife and I? There would have been three ventilated thugs. Not all of Calfornia believes in victim disarmament. :mad:
     
  6. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    See? You knew there had to be a perfectly sensible, rational explanation, didn't you? I wonder how loudly they'll squeal when they get so-called "disrespected" in prison.
     
  7. CleverName

    CleverName Member

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    Funny thing is, I grew up around there, a couple towns over. Millbrae is a pretty quiet town, and it is very unusual for something of this nature to happen. And what violence there is, is almost always gang-related. Daly City is a rougher neighborhood, but only by the fact that stuff occasionally happens there, instead of almost never.

    I often get lunch near the Safeway in the story.
     
  8. BluesBear

    BluesBear member

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    I wouldn't disrespect them.
    No siree Bob.
    I'd give them all the respect they deserve.




    I'd use a new rope for their public hanging.
     
  9. mfree

    mfree Member

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    I'd have the respect to use fresh XTP for their ventilations, yessir, and be accurate about it too. No worse disrespect than giving someone a flesh wound :)
     
  10. Guns_and_Labs

    Guns_and_Labs Member

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    CA has the same provision. I suspect the (surviving) perps may yet find that out.
     
  11. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Reminds me on the case about 10 years ago where an elderly man was attacked on his way to the grocery one Sunday morning in L.A. The "old man" just happened to be a life-long student of Fillipino knife fighting. :eek:

    Certain cosmic justice in cases like this. "Biting off more than they can chew" and what not.
     
  12. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    Are there practical 6" folding knives that fit in one's pocket? The BG is pretty dead, I don't see how an extra 2.5 inches would have helped; I think the victim did quite fine defending himself. Just MO.
     
  13. 1911JMB

    1911JMB Member

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    6 inch folders will indeed fit into a pocket. I have a couple of huge folders, and I carry them regularly. The point is not nessasarily effectiveness, but rather that a big knife can be intimidating.
     
  14. bill2

    bill2 Member

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    I think in CA you can't carry a concealed folding knife with a blade over 4". check out Jim March's website on knives in CA.

    Edited: I just checked it out myself and you can carry folding knives of any length. but check out the web site anyway.

    http://www.equalccw.com/knifelaw.html
     
  15. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    The victim had the will to live and fought back and won.

    Why does it keep coming back to the size of the knife?
     
  16. chickenfried

    chickenfried Member

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    Make me interested in taking an edged weapons course. I tend to think of my pocket knives as handyman tools rather than self defense tools.
     
  17. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Skunkysan, because it's all about the bling-bling, not the will and the skill! :D Hasn't gunskul taught you anything? :p
     
  18. Captain Ron

    Captain Ron Member

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    A lot lot of people do not relies what sharp knife is capable of doing.Just because you have only a knife as your only means of defense you are a long long ways from being defense less.
     
  19. Edmond

    Edmond Member

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    Same here in Illinois.
     
  20. Spreadfire Arms

    Spreadfire Arms Member

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    unless the CA law changed since i left LE in 1999.......which it may have:

    1. there is no limit to blade length on a knife. 12020 PC refers to dirks or daggers being illegal, but there is no statutory blade length. rather, the interpretation of the law was the intent of how it was carried. if it is carried for "self defense" it can be construed as an illegal weapon, however, if it is carried for "cutting boxes and other utilitarian purposes" then it is a tool. the only blade length governed in CA is under 653k PC which is switchblades which have to have a blade length of less than 2" to be legal for civilian carry.

    2. in the commission of a felony, which in this case, was 245 PC (ADW - the club being the deadly weapon) the fact that one suspect was killed, makes this a 187(a) PC (murder) case. the surviving suspects can be charged with 187(a) PC, whether or not the San Mateo D.A.'s office will seek that is another issue.

    but yes Millbrae is a very quiet town, i would expect this to have played out in Richmond, San Francisco, Oakland, or East Palo Alto (or is it now Ravenswood?)
     
  21. Boats

    Boats member

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    There are pocket knives. . .

    . . .and then there are pocket knives:
    [​IMG]

    Between an improvised blunt weapon like The Club and a serious "tactical folder," I will take the knife. Faster. Less telegraphed. Not really blockable with the Club shy of a direct strike to the hand. Two modes of attack rather than wild swinging. Lethal to more areas of the body than the head.

    It would take some courage and a lot of adrenaline, but you get inside of the arc of the club or take the fight to the ground and the knife is going to win it rather handily most of the time.

    I'd rather have a gun, but a knife like the one above is often the best I can do in many social situations and I don't feel disarmed or only good for cardboard. :evil:

    Now a real war club, like a mace or a war hammer? That's a whole 'nuther ball game.:eek:
     
  22. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    With all due respect: baloney! Last month's rope still has lots of life left in it—no pun intended, to be sure.
     
  23. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

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    Oops, missed that when reading the article.

    Being from a quiet town, I don't really know what 'The Club' is, or how it would work as a weapon. Only seen one once, when my roommate from Detroit had one in his truck.
     
  24. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    Skunk,

    I'm not impugning the guy's will to fight--just pointint out that extra reach is a nice thing when contact weapons are the game, and a big folder has a big handle. A 6" folder gives you the reach of a an 8.5" fixed blade knife if you hold the handle at the back end instead of up near the blade/handle junction.

    1. Big is intimidating. The criminals might have left without a fight. That would be an innocent man with no arm injuries from being struck with the club. That would be an innocent woman with no head injuries from being struck with the club. That would be two innocent people who don't have to deal with the trauma of being attacked. That would be one innocent man who doesn't have to think about the person he killed.

    2. Reach is effective. The man might have been able to defend himself and his companion more effectively. They might have been able to reduce the level of their injuries or perhaps escape injury altogether.
     
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