CA Legal AR and AK's ready to go

[2011redrider]

Just saw this site is shipping "Featureless" AR's and AK's. That didnt take long to bypass their laws.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/com..._campaign=Mar+21+2013+eblast&utm_medium=email

 

[LiveLife]

Not surprising. Just like the "bullet button" was the compliance solution for previous CA laws, people had more time to come up with compliance solutions for historic "gunmaggedon" laws that went into effect this year.

Vendors even sought the counsel of legal teams and we should see more and more CA compliant firearms and components coming to market. I have decided to go "featureless" with my carbines/rifles as I prefer to use detachable magazines with mag release.

To help CA shooters better comply with new laws and regulations, I started a consolidation thread in the legal category - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/complying-with-new-california-laws.815370/

While reading through the new DOJ regulations (I will post summary of 19 pages of regulations after I digest them), I noticed some things DOJ allows that I thought was banned like collapsible stocks as long as shortest length with barrel is longer than 30 inches - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...w-california-laws.815370/page-2#post-10445306

California Code of Regulations Title 11, Division 5, Chapter 39, Article 2, 5471(x) "Overall length of less than 30 inches" with respect to a centerfire rifle means the rifle has been measured in the shortest possible configuration that the weapon will function/fire and the measurement is less than 30 inches. Folding and telescoping stocks shall be collapsed prior to measurement.

So I anticipate vendors selling collapsible stock firearms with longer barrels to be CA compliant.

Also, gun manufacturers had time to produce new CA compliant firearms like Keltec RDB-C bullpup carbine with 20" barrel and I anticipate other gun manufacturers to release more CA compliant models this year with 16" barrels/fixed stocks, 20" barrels/collapsible stocks, and 20" barrel bullpups - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ith-new-california-laws.815370/#post-10443586

 

[jdc1244]

Just saw this site is shipping "Featureless" AR's and AK's. That didnt take long to bypass their laws.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/com..._campaign=Mar+21+2013+eblast&utm_medium=email

If the rifles are configured in such a way as to comply with California law, then no laws are being ‘bypassed.’

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Yeah...and whatvwill happen is people will buy them, then California legislatures will draft up a new law which adds THOSE guns to their forbidden list, then it'll start all over again.

Pro-Second Amendment California residents NEED to get a strong, grass-roots movement going over this and start taking control of this mess.

If I lived in California, I'd be getting darn ticked off at jumping through all the legal hoops to finally end up buying compliant firearms and supplies time and again, only to have them outlawed shortly afterwards.

 

[LiveLife]

Chief, I hear you and believe me, we are trying but the Democrat controlled capitol will pass whatever laws they want to pass. It is almost too late for us Californians unless there's court challenge or federal mandate.

I have high hopes that Trump administration along with the Second Amendment Coalition and NRA will push for federal laws that will reverse some of the damaging state gun control laws that negatively affected gun owners. So 2017 is the year we all take action to let our law makers know at state/federal levels to support 2A.

If the rifles are configured in such a way as to comply with California law, then no laws are being ‘bypassed.’

Very good point.

Featureless carbines/rifles are "CA legal" firearms and do not need to be category 3 registered assault weapons (RAW). And DOJ even allows category 3 RAW to be converted back to featureless CA legal firearm with registration cancelled to be given to family or sold - https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/regagunfaqs#14

Yes, I too was upset (actually pissed off) about the passage of 2017 gun laws but since have refocused my attention to actual compliance for me to continue enjoying my firearms with family. Thanks to the ingenuity of individuals and support from firearms industry, I am able to pursue my hobby of shooting.

 

[natman]

Yeah...and whatvwill happen is people will buy them, then California legislatures will draft up a new law which adds THOSE guns to their forbidden list, then it'll start all over again.

Pro-Second Amendment California residents NEED to get a strong, grass-roots movement going over this and start taking control of this mess.

If I lived in California, I'd be getting darn ticked off at jumping through all the legal hoops to finally end up buying compliant firearms and supplies time and again, only to have them outlawed shortly afterwards.

We are plenty ticked off, but there just aren't enough of us. California isn't going to start honoring the Constitution until they are forced to from outside, much the same as some states weren't going to honor school integration in the '60s until they were forced to by the Federal government.

 

[tarosean]

Honest question... Not looking to start anything.
At what point do you say screw it and go with a different type of semi-auto rifle that retains its shootability, etc.? (Mini 14/M1A/MSR, etc.)
Sure, I understand "sticking it to the man"!
However, I watched a video of a Californian playing with/demonstrating the legal types of workarounds for the "featureless rifle". (Sorry cannot remember where I saw it) The only one that seemed to even be of use was the hollow flying V type stock. The other knobs and fin type apparatuses made it unwieldy and likely dangerous as you couldn't really grasp the gun.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

How do you hold that thing?

 

[Capybara]

Lifelong Californian here. I have been watching the featureless vs. registering arguments over on Calguns for the past few months. The whole situation here is pretty sad because featureless and AW registration are about to become moot point. There have been several reports that for the 2017 legislative sessions, the tyrants in Sacramento are going to just flat out ban magazine fed, semi-auto long guns, period. RAWs and featureless will soon not matter. They have submitted this bill for the past two legislative sessions but Governor Brown vetoed it. The Democrats now have a supermajority here and can override Brown's veto. Californians will be relieved of their semi-auto magazine fed long guns in 2018 or possibly 2019, the writing is on the wall. They will go for all fixed magazine semi-autos, either at the same time or soon afterward. Then will come the semi-auto handguns, lever, pumps. The average Californian is deluded, naive, terrified of guns and gun owners and will vote for anything that sounds like complete disarmament. This is never going to change. I predict California will be completely disarmed within five years, possibly sooner. Problem is, Californians are leaving the state in droves and polluting the voter rolls in the surrounding states, they have pretty much put Nevada, Colorado, Oregon and Washington on the same trajectory as far as gun rights. Wish I had something positive to report but in this state, for gun/civil rights, stick a fork in it.

 

[Cannibul]

Lifelong Californian here. I have been watching the featureless vs. registering arguments over on Calguns for the past few months. The whole situation here is pretty sad because featureless and AW registration are about to become moot point. There have been several reports that for the 2017 legislative sessions, the tyrants in Sacramento are going to just flat out ban magazine fed, semi-auto long guns, period. RAWs and featureless will soon not matter. They have submitted this bill for the past two legislative sessions but Governor Brown vetoed it. The Democrats now have a supermajority here and can override Brown's veto. Californians will be relieved of their semi-auto magazine fed long guns in 2018 or possibly 2019, the writing is on the wall. They will go for all fixed magazine semi-autos, either at the same time or soon afterward. Then will come the semi-auto handguns, lever, pumps. The average Californian is deluded, naive, terrified of guns and gun owners and will vote for anything that sounds like complete disarmament. This is never going to change. I predict California will be completely disarmed within five years, possibly sooner. Problem is, Californians are leaving the state in droves and polluting the voter rolls in the surrounding states, they have pretty much put Nevada, Colorado, Oregon and Washington on the same trajectory as far as gun rights. Wish I had something positive to report but in this state, for gun/civil rights, stick a fork in it.

Of course they will. It's not about the guns. It's about control.

 

[LiveLife]

Until then, we continue on the fight for 2A.

This is far from over. There will be SCOTUS review of gun related cases. There will be push by Trump administration/Second Amendment Coalition/NRA for national 2A laws. There will be pro 2A appointments to the SCOTUS.

With Republican controlled White House/Senate/House, 2017 may turn out to be the biggest year for pro 2A vs anti 2A due to above reasons and I don't doubt an all out war by the antis at the state level.

Support the NRA/Second Amendment Coalition and get ready to write your law makers at state/federal level.

Bring it.

Godspeed.

 

[Capybara]

I donate to the CGF, SAF, GOA, FPC, NRA ILA, will definitely always fight these unjust laws propagated by evil people. But I think any relief from SCOTUS will come years too late for this state. The 9th is the worse and most feel it will take 5-10 years to actually get these relevant cases in front of the justices.

 

[LiveLife]

I do not believe the fight for 2A will take years and the counter-offense has already started:

Trump will reverse anti gun executive actions starting day one of presidency - https://www.thetrace.org/2016/11/donald-trump-second-amendment-coalition-obama-executive-actions/


Second Amendment Coalition with NRA/ILA have clear goals and on 12/13/16, House Republicans revived the Second Amendment Caucus to sponsor and support pro 2A laws - https://www.facebook.com/2acoalition/posts/1789897957942266:0

Now, with the support of [President] Donald Trump, these congressional representatives will work toward reversing the damage to America’s constitutional freedoms and re-build congressional support for the Second Amendment.

On 1/5/17, Representative Thomas Massie (R-KY), a member of the Second Amendment Caucus, introduced H.R. 34, the Safe Students Act, to repeal the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 - https://massie.house.gov/newsroom/p...ve-massie-proposes-repeal-of-federal-gun-free

A bigger federal government can’t solve this problem. Weapons bans and gun-free zones are unconstitutional. They do not and cannot prevent criminals or the mentally ill from committing acts of violence. But they often prevent victims of such violence from protecting themselves.

On 1/3/17, Texas State Representative Jonathan Stickland, (R-Bedford) introduced House Bill 375 as 11th state to allow "constitutional carry" without a permit after being the 45th state to allow open carry - https://www.texastribune.org/2017/01/03/lawmaker-hopes-passing-constitutional-carry-bill-2/


The Hearing Protection Act introduced last October by Representative Matt Salmon (R-Ariz) with 78 bipartisan co-sponsors from 34 states will likely pass with Republican controlled White House and Congress - http://www.guns.com/2016/11/09/with...e-hearing-protection-act-looks-good-for-2017/

 

[old lady new shooter]

Chief, I hear you and believe me, we are trying but the Democrat controlled capitol will pass whatever laws they want to pass. It is almost too late for us Californians unless there's court challenge or federal mandate.

I have high hopes that Trump administration along with the Second Amendment Coalition and NRA will push for federal laws that will reverse some of the damaging state gun control laws that negatively affected gun owners. So 2017 is the year we all take action to let our law makers know at state/federal levels to support 2A.

Very good point.

Featureless carbines/rifles are "CA legal" firearms and do not need to be category 3 registered assault weapons (RAW). And DOJ even allows category 3 RAW to be converted back to featureless CA legal firearm with registration cancelled to be given to family or sold - https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/regagunfaqs#14

Yes, I too was upset (actually pissed off) about the passage of 2017 gun laws but since have refocused my attention to actual compliance for me to continue enjoying my firearms with family. Thanks to the ingenuity of individuals and support from firearms industry, I am able to pursue my hobby of shooting.

I'm with you, I was wanting an AR-15 but didn't want to get involved with registration etc, plus I really didn't like the idea of having to fool around if a reload is necessary. If I get one now it will be "featureless" one way or the other.

 

[wally]

Texas State Representative Jonathan Stickland, (R-Bedford) introduced House Bill 375 as 11th state to allow "constitutional carry" without a permit after being the 45th state to allow open carry

I have mixed emotions about this one, my knee jerk reaction is to say "hell yes!" but living in a city with a growing gang problem, I'd rather see the CHL fee reduced to zero and the duration be until revoked for cause, along with the return of "stop and frisk" so the criminals can actually be disarmed.

Eliminating "gun free zones" would be a bigger plus than constitutional carry, IMHO.

 

[2011redrider]

[QUOTE="bds, post: 10452279, member: 113916"

While reading through the new DOJ regulations (I will post summary of 19 pages of regulations after I digest them), I noticed some things DOJ allows that I thought was banned like collapsible stocks as long as shortest length with barrel is longer than 30 inches - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...w-california-laws.815370/page-2#post-10445306

So I anticipate vendors selling collapsible stock firearms with longer barrels to be CA compliant.

Also, gun manufacturers had time to produce new CA compliant firearms like Keltec RDB-C bullpup carbine with 20" barrel and I anticipate other gun manufacturers to release more CA compliant models this year with 16" barrels/fixed stocks, 20" barrels/collapsible stocks, and 20" barrel bullpups - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ith-new-california-laws.815370/#post-10443586[/QUOTE]


Not sure that's how it reads, Telescoping stocks are still listed as an evil feature in 30515 (a) (1) (C), as is a "Center Fire Rifle of less than 30". I would like to keep my telescoping function, as my SW MP 15 Sport 2 is 33" with the flash suppressor still on. It will be over 30" by the time I put a thread protector on. At least that's how I am reading it, only reference to <30" was in the definitions of Section 5471 x.

 

[LiveLife]

Yes, telescoping stocks are allowed as long as the centerfire rifle has a "fixed" magazine. There are products on the market with new products coming to allow compliance with 5470 (p) and (n).

30515 (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine ...

5470 (p) "Fixed magazine" means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.

(n) "Disassembly of the firearm action" means the fire control assembly is detached from the action in such a way that the action has been interrupted and will not function. For example disassembling the action on a two part receiver like that on an AR-15 style firearm would require the rear take dawn pin to be removed the upper receiver lifted upwards and away from the lower receiver using the front divot pin as the fulcrum before the magazine may be removed.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I have mixed emotions about this one, my knee jerk reaction is to say "hell yes!" but living in a city with a growing gang problem, I'd rather see the CHL fee reduced to zero and the duration be until revoked for cause, along with the return of "stop and frisk" so the criminals can actually be disarmed.

Eliminating "gun free zones" would be a bigger plus than constitutional carry, IMHO.

Agree.

 

[Cannibul]

I have mixed emotions about this one, my knee jerk reaction is to say "hell yes!" but living in a city with a growing gang problem, I'd rather see the CHL fee reduced to zero and the duration be until revoked for cause, along with the return of "stop and frisk" so the criminals can actually be disarmed.

Eliminating "gun free zones" would be a bigger plus than constitutional carry, IMHO.

Do you really think that criminals don't carry guns because they don't have a LTC?

 

[Dog Soldier]

It does seem that the voters of California choose their government. Are gun owners in California demanding that the rest of the country change their government? Many states are busy fighting and often winning their own wars.
California Gun owners should be marching on their legislature when in session. They should work tirelessly to enlist voters support. Politics are all local start there. If you wait for others to change your states laws it will not happen.

 

[wally]

Do you really think that criminals don't carry guns because they don't have a LTC?

Obviously they ignore the law or they wouldn't be criminals, but with constitutional carry there is no probable cause for "stop and frisk" which was highly effective at disarming the gang bangers.

I'd wager you don't have much of a gang problem in Kaufman compared to Houston, Dallas, or San Antonio, although I seem to recall Kaufman being the news a few years ago about a murder at the court house alleged to have been associated with the Aryan Brotherhood (never substantiated as far as I know).

Eliminate the cost of a CHL by making the fee be zero, and make it a "one time" hassle by having its duration be "until revoked for cause", I much prefer doing this first and save the constitutional carry for after the gang and terrorist problems have been solved.

 

[HoosierQ]

It will be an uphill battle. Despite the enormity of the great outdoors, California is a very urban state. A considerably higher proportion of the state's population live in urban centers than Indiana for example. As such, voter pressure will probably always be rather weak in this area.

 

[Cannibul]

Obviously they ignore the law or they wouldn't be criminals, but with constitutional carry there is no probable cause for "stop and frisk" which was highly effective at disarming the gang bangers.

I'd wager you don't have much of a gang problem in Kaufman compared to Houston, Dallas, or San Antonio, although I seem to recall Kaufman being the news a few years ago about a murder at the court house alleged to have been associated with the Aryan Brotherhood (never substantiated as far as I know).

Eliminate the cost of a CHL by making the fee be zero, and make it a "one time" hassle by having its duration be "until revoked for cause", I much prefer doing this first and save the constitutional carry for after the gang and terrorist problems have been solved.

I'm not following you.

Either it's legal for someone to carry or it's not. A piece of paper makes no difference. Most gang bangers are prohibited persons due to age or criminal record.

 

[wally]

I'm not following you.

Either it's legal for someone to carry or it's not. A piece of paper makes no difference.

???***???

Its illegal to carry a handgun on or about your person in Texas (unless on your own property or with the permission of the property owner) without a CHL, so the piece of plastic makes all the difference. Sad but true, carrying without carrying your papers is a violation. Even with a CHL you have to leave private property if the property owner asks you to leave, posting of the PC 30.06 sign preemptively "asks you to leave".

There are exceptions, that have recently been "clarified" with a law that now allows carrying inside your vehicle (as an extension of your home) as long as you are not a "known gang member" or prohibited person, this was in response to big city DAs not honoring the "while traveling" exception. Obviously there are issues with the known gang member part.

You should know all this.

The whole point of "stop and frisk" is to make it risky for prohibited persons to carry. Its easy for police to say "I saw a bulge" or "the pocket looked really heavy" so I thought he may be illegally carrying a gun. To the honest citizen its "that sure is a nice big phone" or "I see you have a CHL, have a nice day", to the person violating carry laws its a trip downtown.

 

[LiveLife]

It does seem that the voters of California choose their government.

Yes. When the voters keep voting liberal Democrats to state government, you end up with liberal government. Since there are far more Democrat leaning voters than republican voters (likely from people moving out of state and liberal/Democrats propagating, etc.), Democrats will likely keep control of Sacramento for the foreseeable future.

Are gun owners in California demanding that the rest of the country change their government?

No. But that's the ultimate goal of liberal Democrats and antis.

Many states are busy fighting and often winning their own wars.

Yes they are. Goes to show that people can rise up and make changes to state/federal governments.

California Gun owners should be marching on their legislature when in session. They should work tirelessly to enlist voters support.

We have and experienced some wins for 2A but mostly have experienced major loses the past several decades. With Democrat controlled Sacramento, it's almost too late for California as they can keep passing whatever laws they want to pass.

It is for these reasons why 2017 is a crucial year for Second Amendment. With republican controlled White House and Congress, this is the year pro 2A people and law makers must push back to reverse the decades of damage done by the antis whose ultimate goal is to take guns away from lawful citizens of this country. If not, what happened in CA/NY WILL LIKELY HAPPEN IN OTHER STATES over time.

Since losing the election, liberal Democrats/antis want to "resist" Trump and likely wage an all out war on 2A. We have an opportunity for pro 2A people to rise up and push over the resistance to make lasting changes for 2A so we don't have to spend time on threads like this to figure out how to "comply" with more and more restrictive gun control laws.