Caliber Selection - Bolt Gun

[rduchateau2954]

Whitetail hunted years ago, family stuff ended that. Sold my rifle. Got another opportunity 7 years later. Bought another rifle, opportunity fell through, sold gun in disgust.

Few years go by and I've had a few maybes come along and it's got me thinking why not get another rifle as an almost fun gun that I could hunt with. The problem I have is I get in my own head and can find fault in anything. That and when I think "fun" I think something impractical like a 45/70 lever gun or 35 whelen.

I do reload.

Here's what will happen:
Imma shoot the snot outta it.

Here's what may happen:
Whitetail
Black bear
Coyote
Wyoming Mule Deer

Here's what could happen.
I buy a camper and chase elk.

I'm not recoil sensitive, but I want something I can shoot all day. That originally ruled out anything bigger than a 300 win mag, but I've never shot a muzzle break rifle.

I don't want to say anymore to influence you, so if you were me, what would you get?

 

[stoky]

Either of those will work fine, but for Wyomin muleys or wapitis, you might want something with more reach and less critical range estimation.

 

[jmorris]

If you reload the 300 win mag will do any of the things you listed and more.

 

[Dr T]

My 35 Whelen kicks more than my 300 WBY. Just sayin'...

 

[Gtscotty]

I didn't really enjoy shooting my Whelen or my 9.3x62 with full power loads... You're not trying to do anything that can't be amply done with a .308 or .30-06. They aren't as neato as your stated choices, but are a bit more practical, especially if you're looking to shoot the snot out of them.

 

[Llama Bob]

For that list of requirements, I'd get any of the "big 4" North American calibers - .308, .30-06, .270 or 7mm remington mag. Since elk is one of the less likely targets, I'd probably bias towards the .270.

 

[WestKentucky]

I hate to say it...7 mag. I hate the round, but it's not overly abusive and it's still a magnum. It's overkill on deer but not so much so that you can't salvage meat. It's strong enough for elk, and most dangerous game too although there are better choices in that realm. Since you reload you can make the 7mag as mild or wild as you want it.

Then again there's the 30-06 and 338 as well that fit into roughly the same hole. No matter what cartridge you end up with it's a square peg in a round hole ordeal. Something else always does this or that better, so pick based on versatility and run with it. No smaller than .277 weatherby, no larger than 300RUM.

 

[rduchateau2954]

Either of those will work fine, but for Wyomin muleys or wapitis, you might want something with more reach and less critical range estimation.

That's why I deem them impractical, if I knew I'd never leave the state of WI I'd buy a 45/70 and never look back.

Some of the whitetail opportunities have been farms (2-300yards) and I'd hate to get a mulely tag and not have the rifle.

Plus I've got a lee Enfield no 5 for sub 100/150 yard critter shooting.

 

[rduchateau2954]

If you reload the 300 win mag will do any of the things you listed and more.

I just wonder if I could go shoot a pile of 300mag in a day. Last thing I want is to develop a flinch. I've never shot past 300 yards or used a muzzle break so my knowledge on muzzle breaks and barrel harmonics is very rudimentary.

 

[rduchateau2954]

My 35 Whelen kicks more than my 300 WBY. Just sayin'...

That's why I deem them "illogical" both the 35 and 45/70 kick like a mule and drop like a stone. For whatever reason when I think of "cool" calibers those two come to mind.

Yes I know they've both killed mountains of animals, and shot placement is everything, and Cooper (iirc) killed everything that moved with a 270 buts its kinda like pulling a fifth wheel with my regular cab dodge. Yes it can do it but it's not the ideal tool for the job.

 

[rduchateau2954]

I didn't really enjoy shooting my Whelen or my 9.3x62 with full power loads... You're not trying to do anything that can't be amply done with a .308 or .30-06. They aren't as neato as your stated choices, but are a bit more practical, especially if you're looking to shoot the snot out of them.

Well let me clear that up, I'm not wanting a 35 or 45/70 they are just what comes to mind when I think "fun guns".

I know anything from a 270 to a 375 will kill deer to elk. I've never shot anything bigger than a 300 win mag, never messed with barrel harmonics, muzzle breaks, or hand loads for the big dogs.

Maybe I'll discover I can have a 338 with a muzzle break that I can shoot all day, maybe I can't. I dunno. Maybe somebody will turn me on to something like the 260 that I didn't consider.

Yea I could go get an '06 and be fine but why just do that when I can come talk guns with you guys and learn?

 

[rduchateau2954]

For that list of requirements, I'd get any of the "big 4" North American calibers - .308, .30-06, .270 or 7mm remington mag. Since elk is one of the less likely targets, I'd probably bias towards the .270.

That has been one of my trains of thought as well, or maybe a 260. I'd never considered 7mm mag before hand loading because of ammo cost.

That's the thing, growing up rifle hunting it was store bought ammo. Everybody shot an '06 or 30/30 cause ammo was cheap.

The guys who shot the 7mm mag, 338, or the short mags where deemed L.L. Beaners.

I later bought a tikka t3 lite in 270 for whitetail. I know it will kill bears and elk, but there are better calibers.

 

[rduchateau2954]

I hate to say it...7 mag. I hate the round, but it's not overly abusive and it's still a magnum. It's overkill on deer but not so much so that you can't salvage meat. It's strong enough for elk, and most dangerous game too although there are better choices in that realm. Since you reload you can make the 7mag as mild or wild as you want it.

Then again there's the 30-06 and 338 as well that fit into roughly the same hole. No matter what cartridge you end up with it's a square peg in a round hole ordeal. Something else always does this or that better, so pick based on versatility and run with it. No smaller than .277 weatherby, no larger than 300RUM.

LOL why do you hate the 7mm?

I'm looking at the range of Bear to deer. Anything that kills a bear with kill and elk. Don't care about coyote hides.

 

[WestKentucky]

I have always seen it as a bastard. It's a weak magnum or a strong standard. It's also obnoxiously loud when hunting in areas with other hunters present. I also truly hate belted magnums simply because of the belt. It served a purpose a century or so ago, now it's just there for decoration.

In the deer woods I would never run a hot or even standard 7 mag. I would load it light and bring it down to 7-08 levels. I would only ever amp it up for elk, moose, or brown bear. Elk only for distance shots, dangerous critters to make myself more hazardous to their health.

I may have also been scope-slapped by a 7 mag as a teenager. That doesn't play into it much, but each time I see a 7 case I think of that day.

 

[horsey300]

You may not be feeling too froggy after 50 rds of .300 win mag either, I never was and I got mine when I was 19, 20-30 rds is all I care for, but it has no brake either. I'm sure someone somewhere won't like these but roll it over for awhile.... in some states they require min. Of .25 to hunt elk, here we have the .25-06 capable of many deeds (my Montana grandma used to kill elk with it) and you can load cheap dog bullets too, recoil is more forgiving, but it's a long action(not necessarily a problem) and ammo may not be as readily available (however you can remedy this by stocking up or loading your own). The 6.5 cm is gaining a following but this one I know little about except it's supposed to REACH and be fun. Then there's the .260 of which I know little but I like more variety in bullet selection for now, lighter recoil as well (this one will be added to the collection eventually as soon as I take care of other pressing wants). .270 is plenty popular and for a reason, it works. Now we've come to my next personal acquisition, 7-08, not a lot of recoil, plenty of reach for most people, and should handle everything you've mentioned. Finally, the all around .308, again not bad on recoil, TONS of bullet variety, and capable of many feats. My .300 wm is great, my brother's .338 wm works, but after loading and shooting so much .243 and .25-06 lately I'm storing the ol gal till it's time for something truly validating the extra recoil and expense. There's nothing wrong with other folk's suggestions, but I like throwing 100 rds downrange and being more worried about ammo consumption than shoulder stamina, thus my pick of 7-08. Cheap to load for too. Either way pick something that will make you WANT to shoot so often that you can't miss even in a bad dream, that will ultimately lead to more success than 1200 ft-lbs of energy at 1000 yds.

 

[rduchateau2954]

I have always seen it as a bastard. It's a weak magnum or a strong standard. It's also obnoxiously loud when hunting in areas with other hunters present. I also truly hate belted magnums simply because of the belt. It served a purpose a century or so ago, now it's just there for decoration.

In the deer woods I would never run a hot or even standard 7 mag. I would load it light and bring it down to 7-08 levels. I would only ever amp it up for elk, moose, or brown bear. Elk only for distance shots, dangerous critters to make myself more hazardous to their health.

I may have also been scope-slapped by a 7 mag as a teenager. That doesn't play into it much, but each time I see a 7 case I think of that day.

Haha I'm the same way with 20 guage slug guns.

Honestly I'm between the '06, 300wm, or maybe a 338. That is what you guys are saying as well. But like a guy in the single shot thread said "I like weird"

 

[Gtscotty]

Yea I could go get an '06 and be fine but why just do that when I can come talk guns with you guys and learn?

Because the choosing chambering is really a small portion of the process, there are a lot of good mainstream options, and relatively few bad. The interesting part comes when you're choosing the optimal rifle and scope for your purposes, working up loads and practicing from different positions until you have mastered your weapon and are ready for most reasonable hunting situations.

Don't get me wrong, I've had fun playing around with a variety of chamberings, but the truth is that most of the popular chamberings are more alike than different and what matters is how well you can employ them when you need to.

 

[LoonWulf]

Im on the flip side of WestKentucky, when it comes to the 7 rem mag (what can i say were gun guys). There isnt much of anything i dont think the 7mm rem mag cant do as well or better than rounds a few steps down, or a few steps up...it maybe a bastard, but its one helluva bastard.
His suggestions of the venerable 06 is a fine one, as are the suggestions of the 08 family, as stated its really hard to pick a bad round for what you want.

If you want to be contrary, why not a 7x57, or the 6.5x55 (both available over the counter)...or lets get really out there and go with a 8mm or .338 Gibbs....neither of which actually exist, as far as i know, but i want one of them anyway.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

7.62x54R!

Sorry, every now and then my namesake wants to be heard...

I like the various 7mm-ish cartridges. Easy on the shoulder if you're going to shoot it a lot, plenty potent enough to handle the critters you're talking about, and good ballistics. 7x57 is old school. .270 Winchester can be found everywhere. 7mm-08 is a soft shooter. .280 Remington has a little more oomph.

If it were me, I'd look for a rifle on sale chambered in a cartridge that's both interesting and useful and buy it. Let it come to you, sort of thing.

 

[rduchateau2954]

You may not be feeling too froggy after 50 rds of .300 win mag either, I never was and I got mine when I was 19, 20-30 rds is all I care for, but it has no brake either. I'm sure someone somewhere won't like these but roll it over for awhile.... in some states they require min. Of .25 to hunt elk, here we have the .25-06 capable of many deeds (my Montana grandma used to kill elk with it) and you can load cheap dog bullets too, recoil is more forgiving, but it's a long action(not necessarily a problem) and ammo may not be as readily available (however you can remedy this by stocking up or loading your own). The 6.5 cm is gaining a following but this one I know little about except it's supposed to REACH and be fun. Then there's the .260 of which I know little but I like more variety in bullet selection for now, lighter recoil as well (this one will be added to the collection eventually as soon as I take care of other pressing wants). .270 is plenty popular and for a reason, it works. Now we've come to my next personal acquisition, 7-08, not a lot of recoil, plenty of reach for most people, and should handle everything you've mentioned. Finally, the all around .308, again not bad on recoil, TONS of bullet variety, and capable of many feats. My .300 wm is great, my brother's .338 wm works, but after loading and shooting so much .243 and .25-06 lately I'm storing the ol gal till it's time for something truly validating the extra recoil and expense. There's nothing wrong with other folk's suggestions, but I like throwing 100 rds downrange and being more worried about ammo consumption than shoulder stamina, thus my pick of 7-08. Cheap to load for too. Either way pick something that will make you WANT to shoot so often that you can't miss even in a bad dream, that will ultimately lead to more success than 1200 ft-lbs of energy at 1000 yds.

I have not considered the 25.06. That kinda falls into the. 260/270/6.5 category. 6.5 for me, I dunno, seems like a "cool" 260 for the AR fan boys. (no offense 6.5/ar guys)

I go back and forth about using something like a 270 on elk. Iirc Cooper killed everything with one. But... you talk to or watch the big elk hunters and none are using a 270, most don't shoot less than a 300 win mag.

I get what your saying about the smaller guns. I had a blast the other day shooting a buddies single shot 223. Shot it so well in fact that the price of said gun magically doubled lol. If I knew I'd only hunt deer or hunt enough to buy a second rifle for bear/elk I'd have a 243.

Ive just had so many bad times and let downs from gun hunting deer that I almost avoided hunting rifles for a long time. (pity party, table for one)

For example, I never thought about a 338. Then I remembered that boss system that a company was making for a while. I'd hate to make a decision only to find out there is a company out there that makes a magical muzzle break that will make that 338 feel like an '06.

 

[rduchateau2954]

Because the choosing chambering is really a small portion of the process, there are a lot of good mainstream options, and relatively few bad. The interesting part comes when you're choosing the optimal rifle and scope for your purposes, working up loads and practicing from different positions until you have mastered your weapon and are ready for most reasonable hunting situations.

Don't get me wrong, I've had fun playing around with a variety of chamberings, but the truth is that most of the popular chamberings are more alike than different and what matters is how well you can employ them when you need to.

And I get that, but if we all just shot factory built '06's and factory ammo we wouldn't need to come to this forum and talk to each other like teenage girls with a new crush.

 

[VoodooMountain]

If you want something functional and different get a 280. It can handle all the scenarios you mention and is forgiving in recoil though it could also be handloaded to shoot even softer.

Cdnn happens to have the Ruger 77 in 280 for $450 right now as well.

And it pains me to bring this up but the 30-06 also fits the bill. It's biggest problem being...when doesn't it fit the bill? It's both boring and ubiquitous.

I would also recommend a 6.5 flavor such as a 260 or 6.5-06 but it seems you prefer heavier caliber options.

 

[rduchateau2954]

If you want something functional and different get a 280. It can handle all the scenarios you mention and is forgiving in recoil though it could also be handloaded to shoot even softer.

Cdnn happens to have the Ruger 77 in 280 for $450 right now as well.

And it pains me to bring this up but the 30-06 also fits the bill. It's biggest problem being...when doesn't it fit the bill? It's both boring and ubiquitous.

I would also recommend a 6.5 flavor such as a 260 or 6.5-06 but it seems you prefer heavier caliber options.

I dunno what it is but the thought of flinging a 130gr bullet at a bear or elk just makes me nervous.

I just looked at the 257 Roberts, 270 Weatherby mag, and the 300h&h.

Up next is the 280 ackley improved and belted vs non, then muzzle breaks.

It could very easily be an '06. It seems pretty hard to beat the load range of bullets for the old war horse.

And it would help justify a future garrand purchase.

 

[LoonWulf]

The only down side the muzzle breaks is the blast. A good break can make a huge difference in recoil, but remember that energy is going somewhere.
I dont like shooting braked rifles without double hearing protection, and I really dont like shooting braked rifles from prone if there is any dirt.
I also dont like being on the line with a braked rifle anywhere near me, as the blast to the side is much worse than to the rear.

Other than that its gravy. Only way youll get me to shoot anything over a med .338 un-braked is if it weights 10+ lbs.

 

[rduchateau2954]

Wandering the Internet tonight is confirming what you guys are saying about bigger isn't always better.

Found and loved the 280AI, then was heart broken when I went rifle shopping.

Now that you mention brakes I remember sitting next to a guy with a standard AR that had a brake and how annoying that was.