buck460XVR
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Proficiency is paramount....as far as capacity, I go with the "rule of 3 to 5s".
Caliber vs Capacity- What's more valuable in a CCW?
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For IWB CCW I like 1911s in either .45 auto or .38Super, depends if I'm at my place or in town. Square Glock slides rub on my hip bone and become uncomfortable to carry.
Browning Hi-Power is the sleeper for me, more comfortable IWB than the 1911 for extended periods of time, working, sitting or driving.
Having said this, there's always a M686+/6" nearby in the pick-up or bedroom loaded with 158gr JHPs. Home invaders also have to deal with a German Shepherd service dog and whatever else is available.
I always like the .22lr vs .45auto comparisons that always seem to be a part of these kind of threads. Personally, I'd take a .45auto high center chest vs a .22lr round that bounces off the skull, YMMV.
Bob
Browning Hi-Power is the sleeper for me, more comfortable IWB than the 1911 for extended periods of time, working, sitting or driving.
Having said this, there's always a M686+/6" nearby in the pick-up or bedroom loaded with 158gr JHPs. Home invaders also have to deal with a German Shepherd service dog and whatever else is available.
I always like the .22lr vs .45auto comparisons that always seem to be a part of these kind of threads. Personally, I'd take a .45auto high center chest vs a .22lr round that bounces off the skull, YMMV.
Bob
Resist Evil
Member
For CCW, I prefer caliber over capacity. I use a 1911. To improve my proficiency under stress, I compete.
As for the home, the fear of and preparation for a multi-thug home invasion, to my mind, calls for a rifle or shotgun.
Get training when you can afford it and practice.
As for the home, the fear of and preparation for a multi-thug home invasion, to my mind, calls for a rifle or shotgun.
Get training when you can afford it and practice.
Loosedhorse
member
It seems we have replaced logic with mutiple-choice testmanship. I guess it's no surprise.
But no. Again, as stated, this question has only three logical answers. To the extent that there is an additional, "outside the question" answer, it would be: "the question is nonsensical" (as would be the case with, for example, "Which feels smoother: purple or green?").
But nonsensical questions have no answer--not some other answer.
But no. Again, as stated, this question has only three logical answers. To the extent that there is an additional, "outside the question" answer, it would be: "the question is nonsensical" (as would be the case with, for example, "Which feels smoother: purple or green?").
But nonsensical questions have no answer--not some other answer.
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Just as you can't answer
"Which feels smoother: purple or green?"
without knowing what object is purple and what object is green
You can't answer.
"Caliber vs Capacity- What's more valuable in a CCW? "
Without knowing the parameters of the gunfight.
so like I said D: none of the above. because the question as stated is nonsensical.
The OP may have indeed asked an A versus B question, but we do him a disservice if we answer A or B, when it seems that he did not know enough realize that there are vital considerations other than A or B.
The .38 Special is probably enough, especially for a beginner. My wife has a shiny gold-tone badge, investigates death scene, and has an M.D. after her name. She is content with an Airlite snubby loaded with .38+P, though it holds seven rounds, not five. (Yes, one of those buffalo-humped L-frames that did not last very long on the market.)
Whether or not five rounds, plus a rather slow second five, is enough capacity, may be
more difficult to answer, but it probably will be enough, if one is proficient enough, and
calm enough, to make hits.
Any caliber is enough, until it isn't. Any number of cartridges is enough, until it isn't. Proficiency helps ensure that any given cartridge and/or capacity IS enough.
The .38 Special is probably enough, especially for a beginner. My wife has a shiny gold-tone badge, investigates death scene, and has an M.D. after her name. She is content with an Airlite snubby loaded with .38+P, though it holds seven rounds, not five. (Yes, one of those buffalo-humped L-frames that did not last very long on the market.)
Whether or not five rounds, plus a rather slow second five, is enough capacity, may be
more difficult to answer, but it probably will be enough, if one is proficient enough, and
calm enough, to make hits.
Any caliber is enough, until it isn't. Any number of cartridges is enough, until it isn't. Proficiency helps ensure that any given cartridge and/or capacity IS enough.
not sure thats even possible in a civilian SD situation... best we can do is an educated guess. see "rule of 3's above"
I think caliber trumps capacity but I'd prefer to have both. It's a subjective balancing act. I would not choose a .45 2-shot derringer over a .38 spl snubby revolver, but I WOULD take a 4-shot 12ga over any handgun in any capacity. And I can't even tell you why.... go figure.
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Old krow
Member
Personally I would take whichever I was the best with. Since that wasn't really the question, I'll assume ceteris paribus and say that any of the common caliber will have enough power. After that, I'd go for the most that I could carry comfortably.
You've obviously been watching the crime trends in your area. Before the increase in the number of assailants you trusted a .38 spl to protect you? Given that there isn't all that much difference in a 9mm and a .38 spl I'd think that the "power" part of the equation has already been solved. Any 9mm (assuming a reliable gun and good ammo) with a higher capacity would be at a minimum an increase in capacity while maintaining nearly the same power. In a semi-auto that's where I would set my lower threshold... personally.
You've obviously been watching the crime trends in your area. Before the increase in the number of assailants you trusted a .38 spl to protect you? Given that there isn't all that much difference in a 9mm and a .38 spl I'd think that the "power" part of the equation has already been solved. Any 9mm (assuming a reliable gun and good ammo) with a higher capacity would be at a minimum an increase in capacity while maintaining nearly the same power. In a semi-auto that's where I would set my lower threshold... personally.
JohnBiltz
Member
I've got a minimum floor to both capacity and caliber where I'm not going below. I've got a comfort zone in a range for both where I'm comfortable carrying. I'm not worried about exceeding my comfort zone for every day carry. That would be for when I go looking for trouble and I don't do that since Uncle Sam put me out to pasture. The floor is .380 with 7 rounds and either a spare magazine or even better another .380 with 7 rounds. I've never carried at the floor but if I needed to I would do it. My comfort zone is 10-13 rounds of 9 mm. With or without a spare magazine.
For home defense. I favor caliber, give me a shotgun if I have a choice. Five in the tube and another five on the stock.
For home defense. I favor caliber, give me a shotgun if I have a choice. Five in the tube and another five on the stock.
Loosedhorse
member
No. I find your response purposefully obtuse--and inaccurate.
Purple and green have no inherent property of smoothness or nonsmoothness.
Caliber and capacity both have inherent value in a gunfight; the question was, what is their comparative value for CCW. (Accuracy, proficiency, situational awareness, and a thousand other things also have inherent value in a gunfight; but the OP asked about the relative value of just two of those. A comparison.)
But we don't do him a disservice by assuming his ignorance? Okay.
But I do see your point. Fair enough.
oldfool
Member
yes, that
1st most important is your 1st shot
2nd most important is your 2nd shot
3rd most important is your 3rd shot
both caliber and capacity rank way down the list from that
but... for those who insist it actually matters...
capacity matters more than caliber if you miss fast enough and often enough
caliber matters more if you can manage only one hit out of 15 shots, assuming the target stands still long enough
WinThePennant
Member
I can understand why he'd ask the question the way he did. It sounds like he's probably going to carry his concealed carry gun around in the house, just in case some folks decide to drop in unannounced. Home invasions tend to be unannounced and don't give you enough time to find your way to a shotgun or rifle, so your defense gun against home invasion is likely to be the one you already have on your person.
I'd go with either a Kel-Tec PF9 or Sig Sauer P290. Have an extra mag, just in case.
I'd go with either a Kel-Tec PF9 or Sig Sauer P290. Have an extra mag, just in case.
If my answer "that you can't possibly know how many or how powerful round or rounds will be needed" is inaccurate. Then by all means let us know what the correct answer is.
Of course you can't quantify those values without applying parameters to the gunfight. Without parameters they're values are as meaningless as purple and green textures' are with no object to apply them to.
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Breakmyfootoff
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Thats all fine and dandy, unless you just happen to be in a gunfight that falls under the other 10%. When I consider a gun for CC there is a checklist that I use, in order of importance to me.
#1 Reliability - All the expertise in the world is worthless if the gun doesnt function properly.
#2 Capacity - 10 rounds minimum, or more depending on the season and concealment clothing.
#3 Caliber - Must be a "service caliber" (9mm, .40, or .45)
Once I have a gun that fills those requirements, I practice with it, a lot. I consider those three calibers to be pretty close in effectiveness, so I usually go with the 9mm since it typically offers greater capacity, and cheaper practice ammo. If I ever have to use my gun in self defense and I only need 2 shots, thats fine, there is absolutely no negative to having 8 to 13 rounds left over that weren't needed. On the other hand, if I only had 5 rounds and somehow needed 6 or 7, the results could be really bad. There is no rule against being proficient AND carrying a high capacity gun.
To sum it up as an answer to the OP's question, I favor capacity over caliber (as long as its one of those 3 calibers), and I still choose to be proficient with my weapon.
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Loosedhorse
member
Again, purposefully obtuse. As you well know, your inaccuracy lies in the simple fact that an "A or B" question does not have C as an answer option. Simple logic.
However, your statement above seems to indicate that you do think that both powerful caliber and sizeable capacity could be important. Now you just have to choose one, or both--and you will have actually answered the posed question, instead of answering a different one.
Since it's clear you know what I've said, but have no intention of actually answering the OP's original question, there is no need for me to point out your refusal again.
Untrue, again. Powerful caliber and sizeable capacity have inherent value in a gunfight; of course the details of a gunfight in the future cannot be known to you (or you'd just avoid it), but it is hard to imagine prudent planning that would favor, as I said as an example, depending on a .22 CB single-shot.
Parameter that.
beatledog7
Member
Caliber vs. Capacity? A lot of posters talked about proficiency trumping both, and I agree.
However, the single best thing to have for CCW is none of those; it's good judgement.
Almost every self defense scenario you can think of can be managed without unholstering. We all have the responsibility to remember that drawing and firing are always the last resorts to resolving a situation.
However, the single best thing to have for CCW is none of those; it's good judgement.
Almost every self defense scenario you can think of can be managed without unholstering. We all have the responsibility to remember that drawing and firing are always the last resorts to resolving a situation.
Lawdawg45
Member
Proficiency is paramount....as far as capacity, I go with the "rule of 3 to 5s".
Quote:
OVER 90% OF GUNFIGHTS, BOTH CIVILIAN & LAW ENFORCEMENT, FOLLOW THE RULE OF "3-TO-5s"
MOST TAKE PLACE AT A DISTANCE OF THREE TO FIVE FEET
THREE TO FIVE ROUNDS ARE DISCHARGED
THEY ARE OVER IN THREE TO FIVE SECONDS
The problem is that even the FBI admits this trend is disappearing with the high capacity weapons of today, coupled with multiple suspects engaging victims. Having a 5 shot revolver with no reloads presents a problem with either one suspect with a 15 shot 9mm, or a scenario with multiple suspects, especially understanding that in a real gunfight accuracy drops by as much as 50% (LEO & civilian alike). 5 shots divided between 3 suspects under fire means you might hit 2 of them with a single round.........not good odds in my book!
Quote:
OVER 90% OF GUNFIGHTS, BOTH CIVILIAN & LAW ENFORCEMENT, FOLLOW THE RULE OF "3-TO-5s"
MOST TAKE PLACE AT A DISTANCE OF THREE TO FIVE FEET
THREE TO FIVE ROUNDS ARE DISCHARGED
THEY ARE OVER IN THREE TO FIVE SECONDS
The problem is that even the FBI admits this trend is disappearing with the high capacity weapons of today, coupled with multiple suspects engaging victims. Having a 5 shot revolver with no reloads presents a problem with either one suspect with a 15 shot 9mm, or a scenario with multiple suspects, especially understanding that in a real gunfight accuracy drops by as much as 50% (LEO & civilian alike). 5 shots divided between 3 suspects under fire means you might hit 2 of them with a single round.........not good odds in my book!
If Zen Budda Master with the single-shot .22 cb hits the brainpan of Bubba first. Then 30 rounds of uber magnum ammo in Bubba's gun have zero value to person B.
As to answering OPs question
Mindset>Skillset>Toolset in that order, always in that order. If the proper Mindset and Skillset were attained you wouldn't ask what tools are needed.
Have you actually read your first mumbo jumbo answer.
Both so maybe you should pick something in the middle unless you want more power
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Jonah71
Member
AMEN!!
danez71
Member
No kidding. This thread is funny.
Its like asking if you like 1 double cheese burger or 2 single cheese burgers in your happy meal.
While there really isnt a right answer as its a personal choice based on a lot of things, rather than help the OP make up his own mind for what suits the OP best, the common theme in the replies seem to be to inform the OP that the question isnt even valid.
The OP is simply asking which line of thought is more popular... lean toward bigger caliber or lean toward larger capacity for a CCW type gun.
OP, my answer is:
The most rounds of the biggest caliber that you shoot well
That wasnt so hard.
A: CCW is not LEO. CCWers don't deal with suspects.
B: 3 to 1 is not good odds if there's 20 rounds in your gun.
C: Going offensive and trying to get lead in all 3 is IMHO pressing bad tactics in a bad position.
But I can't find a IWB holster for this :banghead:
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