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California Illegal Hunter Gets $20,000 Fine.

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by Patocazador, Feb 11, 2020.

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  1. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    NO! He did not have a tag to shoot a deer. The tag became invalid once deer season was over. So it absolutely was stealing. Why is that hard for you to understand?
    However, he didn't just shoot a deer. He baited it. He lied on a government document. He forged a signature of an official.
     
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  2. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    He did all that and he got caught. However, he did NOT trespass. He did not hunt without a license. He did not slaughter 100 deer.

    Ya know how it's illegal to hunt without a license? Getting caught for speeding is one thing. Speeding without a license is another entirely. Same concept. Why is that so hard for YOU to understand??? Maybe the law makes no distinction but since folks are judging the content of his character and making wild assumptions, maybe that should be a consideration 'here'.


    So it's okay for you to defend them but not for me to criticize them? The laws don't apply to me so I should keep my mouth shut? How convenient. So I can assume you think it's okay to hang the guy for shooting a deer? I notice you didn't respond to that comment.

    Look gents, I have not once in this thread condoned or defended his actions. I said the fine was excessive. That is all. End of story. My comments have been distorted and taken out of context. Folks are obviously reading way too much into my posts. I'm defending my own position regarding the fine. I'm defending the known facts in this case, while others think it's okay to make wild assumptions and suggest the death penalty. I am NOT defending what the guy did.
     
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  3. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    Having a drivers license does not give you the privilege to disobey the speed limit, nor does it give you the right to run red lights, drive drunk or run down pedestrians. There are fines here for driving excessively over the speed limit that are excessive compared to driving 10 mph over. Driving without a license gives you another ticket, but the fact you have one is no justification for breaking the rules, nor should it give you a break on fines that are already in existence. You noticed the guy did not get fined for hunting without a license, only fined and punished for crimes he committed, and those fines were well within known guidelines. The fact he did not trespass has nuttin' to do about legitimatizing his other actions. Odd are, because he was on private land, his crimes were less obvious and harder to detect.


    I didn't respond because I did not perceive that as being realistic, nor applicable. At one time tho, folks were executed/hanged for poaching game in England. Doubt if it will ever come to that here, nor do I think it appropriate. No body here said anything about keeping anyone's mouth shut, only giving their opinion also. My post was in regard to folks steadfastly trying downplay/defend the actions of the poacher.

    Then what were all those posts about him having a tag to fill? What about the above post claiming he had a license? What about your statement that since he had a tag and was hunting on his land he was not stealing from others? Somehow, to me and others that does seem to be a defense tactic.


    .....there it is again.
    Yes, if it had been a 75 # doe, it would have been a lot less, as per the definitions included in the new trophy hunting regs. You are correct, deer hunting is big business in this country. Big deer attract hunters and promote outfitters. Again, that word extort comes up, even tho that isn't going on here. The state of California is not trying to get rich off these new regs. Their intent to to eliminate the poaching of trophy animals. If they are successful in this attempt, there will be zero income propagated. Don't see how that is extortion or greed. State DNRs/F&G are not "Big Business". Most of them run in the red every year because they have no other methods to produce money for operations/Wardens than from license/permit sales. Fines are generally inconsequential the cost of prosecuting and man hours lost in enforcement generally makes the fine imposed moot. Odds are the $20,000 the poacher paid will never be noticed within the immense budget. This is not a small town trying to fill it's coffers with tourist money from speed traps. This is trying to make the opportunities for trophy animals equal for all the follow the rules.

    BTW....the fine for the illegal shooting of a trophy turkey under those same rules is $5000 and a year in jail. The definition of a trophy turkey is either 1" spurs, an 8" beard or both. Around here that is just average. But, the fine is not what the bird is worth, but what you're out if you get poaching it. Big difference.
     
  4. LOLBELL

    LOLBELL Member

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    It’s truly sad when we as a society put more worth on an animal than a human life.
     
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  5. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    So who is it your figure needs you to reword what I wrote in a slightly more sarcastic way to understand it? I don't, I wrote it to start with and I'm NOT "merely assuming". It was a guess, MY guess and I stated it was when I said it.

    The deer he killed was out of season so his deer license was no more valid than one bought ten years ago or not at all. He is a poacher and he is a thief stealing a public resource. It doesn't matter if he shot it on his property or the neighbors unless he got a depredation permit. If he had one of those this thread wouldn't even exist. He is a liar, a thief, and a poacher, YES, it is my guess he is also a trespasser if all the truth were known.

    I have no sympathy for poachers, I couldn't even guess what would motivate your opinions.
     
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  6. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    It's a good thing that in a court of law, more than guesses are required. :confused:


    Yes, I'm sure you're chomping at the bit to accuse me of something. My sportsman's license just auto-renewed for $165. That's $165 I don't really have to spend because landowners are exempt. I do it anyway to support the wildlife agency. So any guesses, assumptions or accusations you want to fling my way, just because I think $20,000 is an excessive fine for shooting a deer out of season, you can kindly keep to yourself.

    Yes, your posts are very hysterical. Why else would someone suggest hanging poachers? How do you feel about people that break into homes?
     
  7. LOLBELL

    LOLBELL Member

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    So are we to assume you have never told a fib, or maybe took something that didn’t belong to you? How about speeding or not coming to a complete stop before turning right on red? I have. I guess if the truth is known I am also a trespasser by your logic. I need to go turn myself self in along with the 20,000
     
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  8. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    There is no human life issue involved here. This wasn't a deer for eating because the poacher was starving and trying to feed his family. This was a guy flagrantly breaking the law to score a trophy buck and knowing he was breaking the law as evidenced by the fact that he illegally reported it with a forged signature.
     
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  9. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    I hope some of the self-righteous types never get caught shooting a squirrel out of season because he was chewing on their electrical, or a deer that got caught in a barbed wire fence.

    This ain't a murder case and intent shouldn't be much of a consideration, if any. Sorry but a $20,000 fine for shooting a deer out of season is far too reminiscent of what happened in Old England.

    The poachers that are rendering rare species extinct in Africa, different ballgame altogether.

    Here's the thing, we don't all have to agree but it's very unsettling to me that we can't disagree about the amount of the fine without getting personal and attacking one another's character.
     
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  10. Ks5shooter

    Ks5shooter Member

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    Baiting has been legal in NJ for many years. I have not shot one deer over said bait,camera shows them coming in only at night. That being said it does keep them in the area.
     
  11. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    LOL, funny how what seems like a random wild arrow can make a perfect bulls eye so easily.

    Instead of yelling FIRE! in a crowded theater, just yell POACHER and watch 'em all jump up and run to the stage to start giving speeches. LOL
     
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  12. BearBrimstone

    BearBrimstone Member

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    I’ve never been a fan of fines for poaching. If you get caught poaching you should just lose your right to hunt for a few years. Get caught doing it again and you should lose your right to hunt for life. Continue to hunt after that and it should be jail time for not learning your lesson.
     
  13. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    While that seems like a good idea, for most poachers having the ability to buy a license is a moot point. Look at those repeat offenders that loose their driver's license, it generally doesn't stop them from driving. Same for those poachers that lose the right to hunt. Like the guy in this thread. He didn't have a legal tag/license to hunt with, because the season was closed. Didn't stop him tho, did it? Fines make it prohibitive. Fines must be high enough so poachers won't take the risk. They have to be steep enough so the average guy thinks twice before becoming a poacher.
     
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  14. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    Poachers don't buy licenses or tags in the first place. This guy did. A point missed by many in this thread.
     
  15. BearBrimstone

    BearBrimstone Member

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    My reasoning is more an effort to make the penalty affect everyone the same. When a prison sentence is involved it evens things out between people working for minimum wage and people with a seven figure income. To some people $20,000 isn’t that much and to others it’s nearly all they make in a year. Loss of the privilege to hunt and then jail time hits everyone the same.
     
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  16. Highland Lofts

    Highland Lofts Member

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    Wow, this dead horse is still breathing.
     
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  17. Duster340

    Duster340 Member

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    Was the horse poached? ;)
     
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  18. Highland Lofts

    Highland Lofts Member

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    It's over & done with these guys are just doing a pissing match.
     
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  19. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    While I agree on the jail time, again, poachers usually don't stop hunting just because they lost their ability to buy a license. But then, could be like the poacher in this thread and once he has a license/tag....it's good forever, even when the season is closed.


    ....and yet, you have two outta the last three posts here.

    It's a slow time of year for most of us in the shooting sports. This is a controversial thread and it seems folks here are passionate about their feelings about it. Seems for the most part, folk's are being civil and considerate. 93 posts is not an obsessive number, not compared to many other threads.

    Just sayin'.......
     
  20. whughett

    whughett Member

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    But surprised it hasn’t been locked, it’s interesting reading however.
    Punishments fit the crime, which was worth more, the deer, the falsehood, the out of season or some judge on a personal vendetta.
     
  21. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    I don't know how you can say that. Poaching is what causes the loss of license for many poachers, LOL. Lots of poachers buy tags so that they won't get into trouble during X season. If they are out hunting during deer season, maybe after their 10th or 12th deer in a 2 deer limit county and get stopped by a warden, they have their license that ostensibly shows that they are not hunting illegally. They may burn a tag on a deer

    However, what other poachers may or may not do has zero relevance here. Yes, this poacher bought a tag. So what? It wasn't valid. Then he used it in an illegal manner to cover his crime, a point not missed by many people in this thread.
     
  22. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    I leave town for three days and this is what happens......
     
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