California Prop 63 questions

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Elkins45, Nov 9, 2016.

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  1. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    I'm not a Californian so this is primarily academic. CA will now require background checks for ammo purchases. Surely this isn't a NICS check? Can they just impose that kind of a ridiculous burden on the national system because of a state law? Or will CA have to set up some sort of local mechanism?

    Also, what happens to all those "high capacity" magazines that are no longer grandfathered?
     
  2. toivo

    toivo Member

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    I'm not a Californian either, but New York passed its "SAFE" Act in 2013 that included a similar provision. At first they intended to use NICS, but the Feds told them "No way." The state started to develop its own database and system, spent several million dollars on it, and finally gave up when they got a realistic sense of what it could cost to get a working system up and running. So now we have an "ammo background check" law on the books, but there's no means to enforce it. The only tangible result is that many online sellers won't ship to New York or will only ship to an FFL, who will then charge a transfer fee of $20 or $35 or $50 for doing absolutely nothing besides signing for a FedEx package.

    In NY, the "high cap" magazines that were no longer grandfathered had to be destroyed, sold out-of-state, or surrendered to LE or an FFL. (FFLs are still allowed to have them in inventory for sale to LE or out-of-state buyers.) I gave mine to an FFL friend as a thank-you for favors he had done me over the years.
     
  3. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    I venture most of those magazines will remain with owners, subjecting them to penalties if found.

    As for the background checks I also doubt the most populous state in the nation will get away with bothering the feds for every ammunition purchase.

    Any associated fee will make small purchases prohibitive. Go in to buy some .22 for plinking and it costs almost as much for a background check too? Which would limit you to bulk purchases only.


    Additionally the bill adds more funding and expands a program to send out teams of people to disarm those that become prohibited and were previously registered gun owners. California has more ways to become prohibited than most states.
     
  4. mrupe3

    mrupe3 Member

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    Hi All, help I live in California and this is crazy. My understanding is you will have to apply for a permit that will cost $50.00 and will cover the cost of the background check. Once you have this they will keep this in a data base that anyone selling ammo will need to check before selling you ammo and report the amount. If you buy more than 3,000 rounds in a certain time frame that will reported. There is a provision that might allow them to come after you and your guns if you violate the law? Not sure of all the details because everyone seems to tell it a little different. I still need to look at this more carefully, bottom line is they are not going to stop the bad guys, just make the good guys criminals if we're not careful.
     
  5. glove

    glove Member

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    My advice if you can MOVE.
     
  6. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    No, see in California they don't trust you to have items that could be dangerous, like guns.
    You are a primitive commoner and they will look after you, and they will have professionals with guns for things that require shooting.
    However that is why they combined it with prop 64, you are free to get stoned to ease the pain of living in the liberal utopia.
     
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  7. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    Welcome to the forum.

    That's close to my understanding and also uncertainty.

    OP, CA will have their own system.
     
  8. HexHead

    HexHead Member

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    My understanding from when this was first introduced is that you would need to get that $50 background check card annually to buy ammo.
     
  9. danez71

    danez71 Member

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  10. htwohawks

    htwohawks Member

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  11. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    What a mess. Absolutely ridiculous. I'm so sorry for CA gun owners.
     
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  12. HankB

    HankB Member

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    I imagine a good number of Californians will be making weekend road trips to Nevada to buy ammo - unless they're planning to establish border checkpoints and customs inspections?
     
  13. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    There's already checkpoints for agriculture.
     
  14. mrupe3

    mrupe3 Member

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    Looks to me like this law takes effect Jan 2018, so we have time to fight and the CRPA and the NRA are teaming up to fight.
     
  15. Librarian

    Librarian Member

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    Illegal to do that after Jan 1, 2018; CA residents are then required to use a CA-licensed 'ammunition vendor' - no more internet sales, no going to AZ/NV/OR to buy ammo and bring back.

    At the moment, enforcement seems problematic but so far gun owners are a pretty law-abiding bunch ...
     
  16. HankB

    HankB Member

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    Hmmm . . . isn't there some sort of Federal law on the books that would address that from an "illegal restraint of interstate trade" perspective? Meaning, if an item is legal in the state, can one state actually prohibit someone from purchasing the same item in person in another state and bringing it back? The only things I can think of where interstate purchases of locally legal items are restricted are firearms (mostly by Federal law). Some other items may be locally taxed (e.g., cigarettes, liquor) so only limited quantities may be brought in from other states for personal use, but outright prohibition on purchase in another state? IANAL so I could very well be wrong, but this seems to be on shaky legal footing.

    Can any of our legal eagles shed light on the law from this perspective?
     
  17. mrupe3

    mrupe3 Member

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    I already reload, so once they close one door I'll just make my own. Till then I save all my brass and when at the range I ask other shooter for their brass if I see them throwing it out. Most are happy to give it away and I'm happy to pick it up for them and save them the clean up time.

    But I also believe you will still be able to buy from out of state, it will just need to go through a CA-licensed ammunition vendor?
     
  18. msnden

    msnden Member

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    Been in CA for two years, I only brought a few guns with me, I did the registration thing, its all about the money, went to purchase a gun, WoW, this is an eye opener, again all about the money, went to apply for a carry permit, again all about the money, now the ammo, & again its all about the money. However it would not surprise me at all if one is caught with "Non CA." purchased ammo, the threat of gun confiscation will be there, I realize for most this is a little off the wall, but I think any CA residents might tend to agree. Yes, I also agree a person will be able to purchase out of state, but the fees are going to make that impracticable. I really like CA, a great state in many ways, Guns is just not one of them! jmop
     
  19. Librarian

    Librarian Member

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    There are places in CA where money will not help to get a CCW license - San Francisco, especially, but also the obvious large cities. Occasionally, ample contributions to a Sheriff's election campaign have been suggested.
     
  20. heyjoe

    heyjoe Member

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    there arent many companies that are going to want to ship there as here in New York with the safe act. Forget about Midway, and many others....there are enough that will ship though...lucky gunner, palmetto state arms....buffalo bore, etc.
     
  21. tonyjr

    tonyjr Member

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    Thank you . I have been stocking up on ammo , primers even dies . I thought this carp started Jan 1st .
    Reading page 22 to probably 25 helped me a bunch .
    Not much info on reloading around .
    I only hit 2 or 3 hows a year , so a lot of mis-info out there . Taking to NRA / CPRA people at shows - I get
    More info at the gun ranges .
    Maybe someone knows -
    If you reload at my house - am I considered a dealer ? [ 5 nephews and 2 nieces reload here ]
    From what I understand as long as it is their stuff they are assembling - I am safe .
    This and last year I / we made several trips to Boomtown [ Cabella's ] then other places for powder - etc .
    Supportably
    CPRA is going to have the 2016 gun laws book at the show in Jan .
    Thanks again
     
  22. Dudedog
    • Contributing Member

    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    Remember in CA you can't stock up on powder or primers very much........
    Das ist streng verboten!
     
  23. Librarian

    Librarian Member

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    No, not really.

    Primers are not classed as explosives - buy and store as many as you like.

    Smokeless powder IS classified as an explosive, but 20 pounds is the limit. I guess some folks might not think 20 pounds is very much; I don't reload, so I have no opinion.

    CA Health and Safety Code, 12101 and 12102.
     
  24. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    20 pounds will last a while for the recreational shooter who only needs one powder. I keep many different powders around to experiment with, so 20 is reached pretty quick.
    Remember that unemployment problem? There re likely to be people out there who would love to be Border Guards, complete with snazzy grey uniform and jackboots....I mean, "rainbow colored uniform and crimson open toe pumps!" My bad.
     
  25. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I was just looking at Martin B. Retting (long-time giant gun store here) facebook page (for a completely different reason!) and they are showing a "featureless" AR15 stock called Option Zero, which has more information at survivorsystems.com. I watched a couple videos of it in use. It looked effortless. One really nice feature in view of our 10-round mag limit is that you have a spare mag in the stock. Note that being "featureless" you don't have to have a bullet button, it's just a regular mag release. I can't properly describe the grip -- your non-trigger fingers still go around the front but there is a flat thing behind it preventing the hand from encircling it, apparently this makes it not a pistol grip. I don't have a good enough tactile imagination to know how that would work for me without trying it, but all the guys in the videos did fine with it. It comes with interchangeable "length of pull spacers" to be configurable for different size people. I would definitely like to try one once they're available (apparently next month), interested to hear what folks here think.
     
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