California school bans The Declaration of Independence

[M1911Owner]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,...

Also note that an "establishment of religion" is a state church, such as the Church of England. Translated into more modern terms, Congress is prohibited from passing any laws that establish a national church.

Posting the Ten Commandments in public buildings, or singing Christmas carols, or having a cross to commemorate those who have died defending this country, or having a cross on the City of Los Angles' official seal that recognizes the heritage of the Spanish missions, aren't even remotely close to creating "an establishment of religion."

Indeed, the First Amendment Establishment Clause was intended only as a prohibition on Congress; there were several states that had established churches through the time of the framing of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Quoting from the Hon. J. Clifford Wallace, Emeritius Chief Judge of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals:

At the start of the American Revolution in 1775, nine of the thirteen colonies had established churches. When the Constitutional Convention began in 1787, five states still retained their established faiths. State-established churches continued during the Convention, state ratification, and acceptance of the First Amendment. Indeed, it was not until 1833, forty-six years after the Constitutional Convention and fourty-two years after the First Amentdment was ratified, that Massachusetts disestablished the last state-sponsored church. The fact that these official state churches existed and continued to exist after the ratification of the First Amendment is strong evidence that the Framers meant the Establishment Clause to apply only to the federal government; the First Amendment left the states free to decide the propriety of having state churches.

J. Clifford Wallace, The Framers' Establishment Clause: How High the Wall?, Brigham Young University Law Review, Volume 2001, Number 2, pages 759-760 (2001).

Clearly, the "wall of separation of church and state" that some are trying to create in this country, that in reality amounts to enforced atheism, is not supported by the Establishment Clause.

 

[SIGarmed]

The principle is full of it. I listened to a radio program on KABC in Los Angeles where the teacher's lawyer was being intervied. The teacher introduced some supplimental historical documents like most teachers do. Because they had words associated with the christian religion the principle put a stop to it.

The documents were things that the teacher felt where necessary for the children to learn because they were historically accurate.

The so called "seperation of church and state" requires that history be re-written because it contains God?

 

[twoblink]

Just another typical day in a 3rd world country...

I'm waiting for them to start burning books...

 

[pluvo]

I guess now they'll have to ban money.

At least now we know what won't be on their state quarter in 2005.

 

[c_yeager]

There's a world of difference between "establishing" and "respecting an establishment" of religion.

THere is also a HUGE difference between "respecting an establishment" of religion and eliminating exposure to religion. Being free to practice your own religion doesnt mean that one has to live in a vacuume of opposing viewpoints. The founding fathers, with few exceptions, were Christians. The knowledge and acceptance of that FACT doesnt make it impossible to be a Budhist or a Muslim.

 

[The_Antibubba]

Why not ban "The Declaration of Independence"?

After all, The PRK banned The Constitution years ago.

 

[Moondoggie]

Let's not forget that nearly all of the founding documents, and many current government documents (i.e., military promotion warrants) end with the statement "given under my hand on the XX day of XXX IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD XXXX".

I suppose the next thing will be that the ACLU will try and establish a new method for counting the years. I'm surprised that the liberal universities haven't thrown a hissyfit over B.C/A.D. BTW, Arab governments have their own method for counting years based upon some religious event...probably Mohamad's ascent to heaven. Last time I remember seeing an Arab document it was dated 15XX somethingorother. (I'm not slamming or marginalizing the Muslim faith, I just know there is a different system but I don't remember exactly what it is.)

I heartily agree with the posts above regarding the first ammendment and the concept of freedom OF religion vs. freedom FROM religion.

I just love the way liberals promote the "values" (or lack thereof) of political correctness...as long as they get to dictate what those values are and are able to enforce them on the rest of us.

 

[Marnoot]

I suppose the next thing will be that the ACLU will try and establish a new method for counting the years. I'm surprised that the liberal universities haven't thrown a hissyfit over B.C/A.D.

They've already contented themselves with their own system, using C.E. (Christian Era), in place of A.D., and B.C.E. (Before Christian Era), in place of B.C.; this system is in wide use in the scientific community. I doubt it will be long before the liberals try to push this system as the official system, you know, to replace that horribly repressive A.D. (anno domini = year of the Lord), or indeed try to redesign it to something that doesn't even reference Christians.
But honestly, the evil vast right wing conspiracy (or was it the Stonecutters) managed to keep the metric system down, we should have no problem resisting a calendar change.

 

[Zackmeister]

They've already contented themselves with their own system, using C.E. (Christian Era), in place of A.D., and B.C.E. (Before Christian Era), in place of B.C.

If I'm not mistaken, it's Before Common Era and Common Era. Either way bugs me. I am sticking with BC and AD.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

I think y'all might need to read between the lines a bit.

Ask yourself which is more likely:

a) a school is looking to ban historical documents, or

b) a teacher, already on notice for proselytizing his Christian faith to students, tries to do so by selectively quoting founding fathers to accomplish the same thing?

Use some freakin' common sense, here.

 

[M1911Owner]

Matt, it looks to me like it's half way in between your two options: She's trying to stamp out the last vestiges of God in her school. And if the Declaration of Independence has the evil "G" word in it, then the Declaration's gotta go.

Living in this area, it's amazing to see how anti-God some of the left-wing freakazoids around here are.

 

[Atticus]

Well.....I guess the true test will be whether the schools give up their Christmas and Easter breaks. Mail delivery and school on Sundays would be nice as well.

 

[Marnoot]

If I'm not mistaken, it's Before Common Era and Common Era. Either way bugs me. I am sticking with BC and AD.

D'oh! You're right, I got messed up. Not a fan of it myself, but I won't be shocked or surprised if/when the libs start pushing it to officially replace BC/AD.