Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Californias AB 711 Lead Ammo Ban

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Bruno2, May 15, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Bruno2

    Bruno2 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    886
    Location:
    Tulsa , Oklahoma
    CA is going to pass AB 711 which will ban all lead ammo fro hunting in the state:

    http://www.nraila.org/legislation/s...tion-ban-(ab-711)-goes-to-assembly-floor.aspx

     
  2. firesky101

    firesky101 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,433
    Location:
    California
    Lead ammo is already severely restricted here. There are many troubling bills going through our legislature that will set disturbing precedence if they do not get overturned in court. Hopefully they do not get passed at all, but I have very little faith in the legislature of this state. Many of the reps I contacted did not even bother to respond back.
     
  3. x_wrench

    x_wrench Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    833
    Location:
    michigan
    California and New York seem to have the most extreme anti gun laws in the country. of course, personally, i think they have the largest congregation of eccentric people in the world (N.Y.C. & the greater L.A. area). so i guess that should not be to surprising. i have to feel sorry for the people of those states that stay because of family, and are forced into ridiculous, extremist anti-gun laws that are not necessarily what the majority of the state wants.
     
  4. Bruno2

    Bruno2 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    886
    Location:
    Tulsa , Oklahoma
    I believe the fact that both states have a large number of immigrants plays directly into the mindset. They have people coming from all over the world where they are not allowed to own guns in the first place. So they have no attachment to the constitution and how our independence was won. However the New England states cant use that excuse.

    This bill will cause hunting there to be expensive. I have some non lead rifle bullets and they were at least twice as much as expensive lead bullets.
     
  5. razorback2003

    razorback2003 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,231
    Bruno you are correct about the huge number of foreigners in California and NY who are scared of guns contributes to the problem.
     
  6. guitartguy

    guitartguy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    American Redoubt
    Make every effort to leave that state. It took us 20 years, but we found
    a home with like minded people here in Idaho. LIFE IS GOOD!!!:D
     
  7. Dr_B

    Dr_B member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    822
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, east of Washington but west of
    The truly unfortunate and often unspoken thing about California is that it is the state to which many other states look as a model. The danger is always that California is generally a glimpse of the future of the rest of America, unless the public wakes up.
     
  8. ID-shooting

    ID-shooting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Messages:
    643
    Location:
    Nampa, Idaho
    Sorry about that guys...silver lining, more ammo for the rest of us to buy ;)
     
  9. Huskerguy

    Huskerguy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    188
    Location:
    Central Kansas
    I think it used to be that Cali was the forerunner in setting the standard for new laws. EPA laws and such in the past always started in Cali. I am not so sure that is true anymore. I think more states are stopping and taking at look at costs and not was willing to follow the leader anymore. That being said, the lead ban would not surprise me to be a federal EPA ban and that would get us all screwed.
     
  10. Cast of One

    Cast of One Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    This annoys me. What kind if environmental impact does a 180 grain bullet make when shot at a mobile 4 legged creature? I can see banning lead shot at a duck pond but this is ridiculous.
     
  11. dab102999

    dab102999 Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2012
    Messages:
    473
    Some of the biggest problems I have with bills like this is the misinformation. Lead from bullets is much different on the environment then lead from paint. Even if ingested. There are so many places that are too hard to trace lead too that blaming it on bullets is just an easy out.

    And even though it is implied for hunting how will this effect the self defense aspent. Expecially in areas that don't allow hollow point or ammo of that type. And I believe they are not just talking about exposed lead bullets. Even lead core bullets are affected to if I understand it correctly.
     
  12. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    May 22, 2003
    Messages:
    18,550
    Location:
    Lexington,North Carolina...or thereabouts
    The problem is that the EPA...like the IRS...is becoming more powerful and out of control, and none of its officers are elected. They can do pretty much as they please as long as they can show a reasonable suspicion...not proof...a suspicion...that a substance or an activity presents a "danger" to the environment. I've believed for years that the EPA will emerge to become one of the main tools of tyranny.
     
  13. firesky101

    firesky101 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,433
    Location:
    California
    Yes it is bullets with any lead. Here is their (IMO) flawed argument. Lead levels are increasing in the endangered carrion eater called the California Condor. The lawmakers say this is due to ingestion of lead in gut piles from hunters bullets. Here is my problem with it, lead levels have also increased in all the condors in captivity, so are we feeding captive condors lead bullets?
     
  14. Bruno2

    Bruno2 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    886
    Location:
    Tulsa , Oklahoma
    Don't try to mix logic in that argument firesky. People are still blathering on about global warming even after it was proven to be a myth by the people whom created it.

    I watched a documentary about neighborhoods close to lead smelters not long ago(maybe 6 mos) at all. I could tell by the way the show was presented that we will be having trouble with obtaining lead for bullets in the near future. If the EPA were to start trying to push lead restrictions or trying to force the smelters into new compliance we would never see the end of the ammo crisis. The prices we are paying now would be a discount compared to what we would have to pay if we could even find it.
     
  15. Deer_Freak

    Deer_Freak Member.

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2012
    Messages:
    662
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Moreover, 99% of lead bullets pass through the animal. The condors can't be chasing all the lead bullets lodged in trees down. This is nothing but another backhanded method of gun control.
     
  16. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    6,078
    The problem with the lead ban is once it is passed, ammo makers will try and rape hunters by charging outrageous prices for "non-lead" hunting ammo. Just like they did back when steel shot became required. Around here, now that DDT was outlawed and the eagles made a huge comeback, they too will feed on carrion, and there has been shown to be an increase in the lead levels in their blood also. Again....lead used in hunting ammo is being blamed. While whether or not lead in hunting ammo is really to blame, with today's technology, it's hard to imagine we can't find a affordable replacement for lead.
     
  17. hang fire

    hang fire Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,089

    That sounds good, but I have found people from ****-forn-ia within a few years revert back to wanting the very same things which they left CA to avoid.

    The ex California anti 2nd rats pouring into AZ are working 24/7 to turn this state into a CA clone hell hole.
     
  18. barnbwt

    barnbwt Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    7,121
    It's not entirely their fault; tungsten is more expensive than steel, after all. There is also a limited market, since only a tiny fraction of shot gets thrown at birds (as opposed to clays/tin cans). The real purpose of this new ban is simply to drive up prices. An obvious directive to a higher-priced solution, with dubious benefit aside. Is there even any evidence of lead from firearms causing harm to man or nature in any quantity? Was there any when lead shot was banned (and have lead levels in fowl returned to ambient?) Or is this merely another "so long as it makes the activity more onerous" law (i.e. an infringement)?

    I thought this nonsense was settled in the 70's when Congress forbade the EPA from banning lead in ammunition. I guess we're gonna see that raise its ugly head again, seeing how political its goals become (further evidence that agency should have never existed under our constitutional system).

    TCB
     
  19. Grassman

    Grassman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,778
    Location:
    Texas
    Couldn't agree more. Why is the main enforcer of obamacare the IRS? I'll tell you why, no accountability. Easier to pass the buck.
     
  20. Bruno2

    Bruno2 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    886
    Location:
    Tulsa , Oklahoma
    I would like to see some follow up stats to prove the lead ammo ban on federal waterfowl has made a difference. I know the tree huggers can find stats that support their position, but I would like to see a real unbiased poll that says "yes" it has.

    I have hunted ducks off and on since the lead ammo ban was put in effect. The only thing I have noticed is that the ducks keep flying when you wing them with steel shot. Unlike a lead ammo wound that will flatten out and break the wing the steel shot just passes through and the bird keeps going.I haven't tried any of the new hevy shot or bismuth which is supposed to be better.
     
  21. Pistola

    Pistola Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Hiko
    How true about the "immigrants" Bruno.
     
  22. Solo

    Solo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    838
    Just curious, but are captive condors allowed to fly out in the wild or kept in enclosures? Because if the latter is true, there might be lead contamination in the food and water they are being fed.

    I would expect that everyone on this forum, barring Native Americans, are either immigrants or the descendants of immigrants.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2013
  23. Twiki357

    Twiki357 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,939
    Location:
    Prescott Valley, AZ
    I think that would more appropriately be phrased:

    I would expect that everyone on this forum, barring Native Americans, are either LEGAL immigrants or the American born descendants of immigrants.
     
  24. Solo

    Solo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    838
    Valid point.
     
  25. barnbwt

    barnbwt Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    7,121
    Enough bashing of the immigrants --we just aren't doing our jobs and converting them to our side well enough. My ancestors hail from decidedly anti individualist Europe, but we learned to do things the right way once we got here.

    TCB
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page