Be very, very, careful if you follow this suggestion. Start way low (Watch for stuck bullets) and cautiously work up. A 65 Gr at 1800+ FPS is smoking. There is no way to know if it is Longshot, or even a close cousin.
Calling all powder guru's!
- Thread starter Michael Cookson
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Yep. Be very careful out there.
Scooter22
Member
I read your post and a few others. Do Not Guess on powders. Get it out of a properly marked can and follow reliable loading data. When you pull that trigger you can have 30-60,000 psi in your hand or face. You want to make a mistake on that?
jmorris
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Exact is pretty unlikely, or there would never be any lot to lot variations.
But you don’t need gas chromatography mass spectrometry to figure out burn rate, that will just tell you what substances are in it.
The Army research laboratory uses the “closed bomb” concept where pressure is measured as a function of time.
This explains it.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a261009.pdf
armarsh
Member
You both seem to have missed the part where I said "using published data of course". I recommended a powder commonly used for the caliber and recommended using published data. If there is a hazard in using published data you both should let everyone know about it.
A spectrometer will give the chemical breakdown as well as the percentages of each chemical. That compared to the manufacturer's spec (MSDS?) will identify the powder. Plus Abby can tell you not only the composition of the powder but the day of the week it was made, the phase of the moon and the operator's sex...
jmorris
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If you intended to say “go buy a can of longshot and use published data.” I apologize. It looked like you were suggesting he use longshot data for his unknown powder.
I see your point though, buy everything that looks like that and use book data and chronograph. Might be easier to find a book that has data pushing a bullet of that weight that fast before buying any powder, then again it might not.
Jim Watson
Member
The "unknown powder" is in a factory load, the OP does not have a sack of it.
Hodgdon does not show any load for Longshot and a 65 grain bullet so it doesn't matter what the factory powder looks like. Be nice if we knew the charge weight.
CFE Pistol gives the highest velocity of those they do list.
Hodgdon does not show any load for Longshot and a 65 grain bullet so it doesn't matter what the factory powder looks like. Be nice if we knew the charge weight.
CFE Pistol gives the highest velocity of those they do list.
armarsh
Member
Since my earlier suggestion has been made out to be wildly dangerous by others, I thought I would put the the numbers into Quickload to see if it could meet the OP needs. This is a 65 grain bullet in 9mm with an undisclosed charge of Longshot:
So there you have it Mr. Cookson. Quickload would suggest that a Longshot work-up would answer your needs. There is a load for 80 grain bullets on Hodgdon's web site to start with. If you want the powder charge that corresponds to this chart PM me and it's yours.
One last thought. Lehigh makes the bullets. They provide loading data. I did not see 65 grain 9mm data but I'm sure they would provide it if you asked. No guessing or risk at all. My experiences with Lehigh customer service have been excellent. https://www.lehighdefense.com/colle...treme-defense-65gr-bullet?variant=13506105284
So there you have it Mr. Cookson. Quickload would suggest that a Longshot work-up would answer your needs. There is a load for 80 grain bullets on Hodgdon's web site to start with. If you want the powder charge that corresponds to this chart PM me and it's yours.
One last thought. Lehigh makes the bullets. They provide loading data. I did not see 65 grain 9mm data but I'm sure they would provide it if you asked. No guessing or risk at all. My experiences with Lehigh customer service have been excellent. https://www.lehighdefense.com/colle...treme-defense-65gr-bullet?variant=13506105284
Jim Watson
Member
Would you use an "undisclosed charge" out of Quickload considering that Hodgdon does not publish anything suitable?
I think I would just throw in some CFE-P in the range Hodgdon tabulates.
I think I would just throw in some CFE-P in the range Hodgdon tabulates.
ReloaderFred
Member
I have QuickLoad and find it much more reliable with bottleneck rifle calibers than straight wall handgun calibers as far as it's pressure data goes.
Hope this helps.
Fred
Hope this helps.
Fred
Jim Watson
Member
All I know about Quickload is what I read on the internet. Computing pistol loads seems to be an iterative process, you have to keep fudging the inputs until you get it to "predict" what you are already doing.
armarsh
Member
If you don't know anything about Quickload, what prompts you to comment on its usefulness? You could not be more incorrect BTW , as the above clearly shows.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
armarsh, you might want to take it easy, you seem to be a little angry or something. There is no reason to catch an attitude here, we all try to help each other.
If you were saying to use Longshot data with the unknown powder our posts are spot on, and that is the way I read it. If you meant to try Longshot and follow Longshot data, then we simply misunderstood, and that is a good suggestion. Whether it will get to 1800 FPS safely is another question, but it is worth a try for fast 65 Gr loads in 9MM.
Jim Watson
Member
Thing is, Hodgdon has no Longshot data for 65 gr 9mm.
Does somebody else?
Is Quicload good enough?
Apply 80 gr data to 65?
Why not use what information is readily available and not worry about what the powder LOOKS like?
Does somebody else?
Is Quicload good enough?
Apply 80 gr data to 65?
Why not use what information is readily available and not worry about what the powder LOOKS like?
armarsh
Member
Sorry, I did not mean to write as if I did. People can read whatever emotion they want into the written word. I was genuinely interested in why someone would want to comment on a product while saying he has no first hand experience with it in the same post.
I can't understand why anyone would want to do that so I thought he may have had a reason.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
No harm done and if I read your post wrong I apologise. I was just trying to keep everything civil.
Jim Watson
Member
I have heard it said by users previously known to me that getting pistol numbers out of QL is a circular process.
You don't have to?
You don't have to?
Michael Cookson
Member
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2017
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Well it turns out that it is most likely silhouette. I contacted Lehigh defense the makers of the bullet (they partnered with Underwood) and their only tests done using the 65gr 380 round in the 9mm case was with silhouette. They used 9.9gr to get 1803 fps at 38,500 psi. 1.100" col
Hondo 60
Member
as LoonWulf said, "even then its likely not what we would consider a "canister" powder. Tho you MAY be able to get something similar."
Factories have proprietary powders made, that you & I can't get.
I know this is disappointing news, but that's the way it is.
FROGO207
Member
Looks like the call to the ammo manufacturer solved the problem for the OP. Going by previous personal research most ammo manufacturers will not disclose what is proprietary information for whatever reasons. I would choose not to guess what propellant they used by visual comparison alone. The only one I would be sure about today is Trail Boss.
Going by previous personal research most ammo manufacturers will not disclose what is proprietary information for whatever reasons. I would choose not to guess what propellant they used by visual comparison alone. The only one I would be sure about today is Trail Boss.From Western Powder's 6.0 DPF (Available Online)
+P
9.9 Grs is a big jump, and 1800 FPS is smoking. I know by experience that Silhouette seems to be forgiving (Not spiky?) at the top, and folks like it for hot 9MM, but I would sneak up on that very carefully.
Anyone want to run that through QuickLoad? armarsh?
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