GEM- I get that it is unlikely but the fact is that this is our last chance for two years to try and get campus carry passed here in Texas. Keep trying for a few more weeks and if it fails we will just have to wait for two more years.
Campus Carry bill Tx
- Thread starter farson135
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The only thing that stopped the bill from passing was parliamentary procedure. We have the votes in both houses, a governor who supports (or will at least sign) the bill, and several very supportive reps and senators. Sounds like now is a great time and if we push a little bit we might just pull it off. Better to try and fail than to allow our rights to continue being infringed.
The governor just signed the sonogram bill - which he fast tracked as a conservative policy. He refused to fast track the gun bills. Figure it out.
Now, on the TX chl forum - folks are talking about the noble efforts of the progun folk. Some probably were sincere but they weren't ready to go to the wall for the gun bills. Sounds familiar.
I think it was pre-ordained as a majority strategy could have forced it but decided to fold and move to other things.
Now, on the TX chl forum - folks are talking about the noble efforts of the progun folk. Some probably were sincere but they weren't ready to go to the wall for the gun bills. Sounds familiar.
I think it was pre-ordained as a majority strategy could have forced it but decided to fold and move to other things.
usmarine0352_2005
member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2005
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- 2,796
What's the chance of getting it passed this year?
.
None - all the major players in favor of the bill realize that it is over. No chance for a magic trick in Legislature and Gov. Hairdo.
Surprise me but that's what I read on the TX specific sites.
Sending faxes, etc. didn't work when the game was truly afoot. So why now? Oh, Gov. Coyote comes out of his slumber?
I also worry that continuing ineffectual actions and faxes weakens the position. Better to try to influence the players electorally. I think, for example. progun Perry might not like his NRA rating signficantly lowered - want to be President?
Surprise me but that's what I read on the TX specific sites.
Sending faxes, etc. didn't work when the game was truly afoot. So why now? Oh, Gov. Coyote comes out of his slumber?
I also worry that continuing ineffectual actions and faxes weakens the position. Better to try to influence the players electorally. I think, for example. progun Perry might not like his NRA rating signficantly lowered - want to be President?
usmarine- Slim but there is a chance. GEM might want to be a naysayer but the fact is that there is a chance. All Perry has to do is allow the legislation into the special session (which from what I have heard the special session is likely to happen) and then there is another opportunity. If Wentworth can get Ogden on board (like he did when he attached the bill to SB 1581) then it can pass the Senate and as long as it is actually voted on in the house and is signed by the governor it passes.
BTW GEM, the game is still going on and I plan to play it to the end. Didn’t anyone ever tell you not to quit even when the chances of victory are slim because when you are backed into a corner that is when you show your real character. You might be willing to quit but this is something I worked and lobbied for and even if it is doomed I will play this to the end because that is who I am.
BTW GEM, the game is still going on and I plan to play it to the end. Didn’t anyone ever tell you not to quit even when the chances of victory are slim because when you are backed into a corner that is when you show your real character. You might be willing to quit but this is something I worked and lobbied for and even if it is doomed I will play this to the end because that is who I am.
I use common sense and also think long term. Ineffective measures now weaken later chances. That's well known in many disciplines
I understand why you want to call names and have a rant rather than really think about strategy. Good for you.
As no one in the game now - thinks there is a chance, I respect their position and view as compared to yours. I also think your view is counterproductive and emotional.
I understand why you want to call names and have a rant rather than really think about strategy. Good for you.
As no one in the game now - thinks there is a chance, I respect their position and view as compared to yours. I also think your view is counterproductive and emotional.
Failure weakens chances. I was at every single committee hearing and at several Q&A sessions over campus carry and you know what one of the points they always made was? The number of times campus carry has failed to pass. I wonder what strategy you have to counter that argument and I also wonder what overall strategy you have in mind.
You have complained that campus carry is finished since the beginning of April so what do you expect me to think of you. You state that the bill is finished then when it keeps going and stalls you state it again. Should I start following your lead now or should I continue trying? Feel free to tell us your master strategy for winning next time because if your posts on this topic are any indication we don’t need you strategy.
BTW Wentworth and Driver said they will keep trying but they don’t have much hope. Sound familiar? (hint: exactly what I have been saying)
You have complained that campus carry is finished since the beginning of April so what do you expect me to think of you. You state that the bill is finished then when it keeps going and stalls you state it again. Should I start following your lead now or should I continue trying? Feel free to tell us your master strategy for winning next time because if your posts on this topic are any indication we don’t need you strategy.
BTW Wentworth and Driver said they will keep trying but they don’t have much hope. Sound familiar? (hint: exactly what I have been saying)
TexasBill
Member
Bad news is we still have Perry for the 83rd Legislature in 2013.
I'm not going to say it's all over for the 82nd, but the fat lady is running through her warm-ups and it sure looks like she'll be singing away come May 30.
What bothers me a lot is the fact is we had a completely Republican-controlled, generally-well-rated-by-the-NRA House and Senate and yet we didn't get a different outcome.
The reality is that even though the number of CHL holders looks big, it amounts to less than 2% of the state's population and just about 3% of Texas eligible voters. Florida has a higher percentage (4.6%) of concealed weapon licenses in their population and Pennsylvania is even higher at 4.9 percent.
However, it's estimated that more than 30 percent of Texas households have a gun of some sort and that's probably fairly low because a lot of Texans aren't going to tell anyone about their guns.
In order to have some real clout in the next legislature, we need to attract some of these people to our side. One way to do that is to quit making everything all about CHL holders. The parking lot law could easily have included all Texans because they can already carry a concealed handgun in their car without a permit. This would allow them to carry the concealed weapon to their place of employment and leave it in the car. That's as close to a no-brainer as you can get and it might have gotten farther if more people cared about it.
This is just my opinion, but I think Campus Carry was hurt by the Virginia Tech incident. It was definitely hurt by focusing on such incidents instead of the occurrence of assault, rape and even murder on Texas college campuses. The Campus Carry debate should have been focused on the ability of students, faculty and staff being able to defend themselves against everyday criminals, not the rare psychos like Whitman and Cho.
So, just in case we don't get the last-minute miracles we're hoping for, perhaps as we prepare for the next round we might consider some new strategies and tactics. We've been preaching the same sermon to the same chorus for years when what we really need to do is figure out how to grow our congregation.
I'm not going to say it's all over for the 82nd, but the fat lady is running through her warm-ups and it sure looks like she'll be singing away come May 30.
What bothers me a lot is the fact is we had a completely Republican-controlled, generally-well-rated-by-the-NRA House and Senate and yet we didn't get a different outcome.
The reality is that even though the number of CHL holders looks big, it amounts to less than 2% of the state's population and just about 3% of Texas eligible voters. Florida has a higher percentage (4.6%) of concealed weapon licenses in their population and Pennsylvania is even higher at 4.9 percent.
However, it's estimated that more than 30 percent of Texas households have a gun of some sort and that's probably fairly low because a lot of Texans aren't going to tell anyone about their guns.
In order to have some real clout in the next legislature, we need to attract some of these people to our side. One way to do that is to quit making everything all about CHL holders. The parking lot law could easily have included all Texans because they can already carry a concealed handgun in their car without a permit. This would allow them to carry the concealed weapon to their place of employment and leave it in the car. That's as close to a no-brainer as you can get and it might have gotten farther if more people cared about it.
This is just my opinion, but I think Campus Carry was hurt by the Virginia Tech incident. It was definitely hurt by focusing on such incidents instead of the occurrence of assault, rape and even murder on Texas college campuses. The Campus Carry debate should have been focused on the ability of students, faculty and staff being able to defend themselves against everyday criminals, not the rare psychos like Whitman and Cho.
So, just in case we don't get the last-minute miracles we're hoping for, perhaps as we prepare for the next round we might consider some new strategies and tactics. We've been preaching the same sermon to the same chorus for years when what we really need to do is figure out how to grow our congregation.
paragrouper
Member
Just to clarify:
Sec.A52.061.AARESTRICTION ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE ACCESS TO
OR STORAGE OF FIREARM OR AMMUNITION. A public or private employer
may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a
concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully
possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or
ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked,
privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or
other parking area the employer provides for employees.
SB 321 does not cover just CHL's.
TexasBill- You are certainly right about the conversation being mislead. Unfortunately Wentworth didn’t do us any favors when he framed the debate as preventing another Virginia Tech. I tried to stay away from that conversation and concentrate on their arguments on suicide, intimidation, crime on and near campus, etc. Actually the closest I came to discussing mass shootings was when I reminded everyone that people with firearms helped save the day (paraphrasing my argument) at the UT Austin and Appalachian State Shootings.
Actually at one point Molly Cummings (a professor here at UT who apparently put her ground breaking research on hold in order to protest campus carry) stated that this debate is not about what I was talking about but about mass school shootings because that is how Wentworth framed the debate. I suppose next time I will have to send Wentworth a letter and ask him to shy away from mass shootings and stick to the day-to-day stuff.
Actually at one point Molly Cummings (a professor here at UT who apparently put her ground breaking research on hold in order to protest campus carry) stated that this debate is not about what I was talking about but about mass school shootings because that is how Wentworth framed the debate. I suppose next time I will have to send Wentworth a letter and ask him to shy away from mass shootings and stick to the day-to-day stuff.
I was right in my prediction and my current comment was that thinking Perry would come up with a last minute Hail Mary was delusional.
Texas Bill make my point of rethinking strategies. If you don't learn from the past, you are not using common sense.
Also, I hate to say this but the proponents of campus carry have a naive view of the opposition and how to counter such.
You need to overcome risk analyses, liabiity analyses and pure antigun sentiment as compared to the low probability of a rampage and/or defense of individuals vs. criminals.
You need to counter these arguments on cognitive levels and as well as understanding the emotional level. It wasn't done. The power of colleges and business interests were enough to thwart the standard RKBA rhetoric. Also, the RKBA folks need to understand that they were played by pseudosupporters.
But I said that before. Take it or leave it.
Texas Bill make my point of rethinking strategies. If you don't learn from the past, you are not using common sense.
Also, I hate to say this but the proponents of campus carry have a naive view of the opposition and how to counter such.
You need to overcome risk analyses, liabiity analyses and pure antigun sentiment as compared to the low probability of a rampage and/or defense of individuals vs. criminals.
You need to counter these arguments on cognitive levels and as well as understanding the emotional level. It wasn't done. The power of colleges and business interests were enough to thwart the standard RKBA rhetoric. Also, the RKBA folks need to understand that they were played by pseudosupporters.
But I said that before. Take it or leave it.
TexasBill
Member
Read it again, paragrouper.
"...employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm...."
The employee must first hold a CHL to "otherwise lawfully possess a firearm."
If the bill meant what you believe, it would have to say: "...employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, or who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm...."
paragrouper
Member
The comma after 'code' has the same meaning as 'or.'
TexasBill
Member
My apologies, paragrouper! I must have been off in the ozone somewhere that caused me to forget proper grammar.
Semantics? Whatever. You continue to miss my points. However, that's fine. I hope that in future efforts - fighting to last with a failed strategy is rethought.
On the way in - this present defeat should be analyzed and new strategies designed, and tested. Outraged statements on the obviousness of the RKBA didn't work as compared to the real game underneath it all and the obvious power of the opposition and their arguments.
I remember a plant closure where I used to live. The plant was sold out to some outfit. The workers protested mightly during the last days of operation. When it was closed, they protested outside the gates. When it become a parking lot, some protested outside the lot. Yes, there was a slim possibility that God almighty would recreate the plant.
Didn't happend. The smart workers figured out another way to make a living.
A smart proponent of the RKBA would figure out how to win the next time with thorough analyses rather than wasting time on a miracle from Hairdo Almighty.
Since I had this pegged early on, you know what you should think of me - I'm smart. Ha!
On the way in - this present defeat should be analyzed and new strategies designed, and tested. Outraged statements on the obviousness of the RKBA didn't work as compared to the real game underneath it all and the obvious power of the opposition and their arguments.
I remember a plant closure where I used to live. The plant was sold out to some outfit. The workers protested mightly during the last days of operation. When it was closed, they protested outside the gates. When it become a parking lot, some protested outside the lot. Yes, there was a slim possibility that God almighty would recreate the plant.
Didn't happend. The smart workers figured out another way to make a living.
A smart proponent of the RKBA would figure out how to win the next time with thorough analyses rather than wasting time on a miracle from Hairdo Almighty.
Since I had this pegged early on, you know what you should think of me - I'm smart. Ha!
A defeatist is not a prophet just because they happen to be right on one occasion. You once again miss my point. You stated the bill was done but it kept going. There is a possibility it could keep going again which is why I say to keep trying. You try to say it is hopeless when the evidence is against you. If Perry puts it into the special session it could still pass and Perry might do it. He probably won’t but he might. You may not like Perry but do not insult me because of it. Besides I already offered a change in strategy (you must not have read it because you want to chastise me more).
Guillermo
member
the chaos of the Texas Legislature is well established.
Last session I was working with TSRA to get something passed. We got defeated twice attaching it to another bill.
Some Senator must have had an aide watching, because he wasn't at any of the committee meetings I attended. The bottom line is that AFTER the session we found out that our legislation was adopted.
Obviously this is too high profile for that but the point is valid.
Until the last echo of the fat lady's final note has faded...it is not over.
Last session I was working with TSRA to get something passed. We got defeated twice attaching it to another bill.
Some Senator must have had an aide watching, because he wasn't at any of the committee meetings I attended. The bottom line is that AFTER the session we found out that our legislation was adopted.
Obviously this is too high profile for that but the point is valid.
Until the last echo of the fat lady's final note has faded...it is not over.
mdThanatos
Member
Well I have been hoping for this to get passed for quite some time, even had a big debate about it two years ago when it failed to pass. I am finally graduating from a UT El Paso in July, well that is my last class, and have had a few incidents where I did not feel like the university police department did an adequate job, nor did the administration. I would still like to see something like this pass for future students but for now I am sad that I missed out on witnessing it happen for me.
Well the word going around is that Senator Wentworth is trying to attach his bill to something else. Please take a few minutes and call your senator. Also please call Governor Perry and talk to him about the special session. It will only take a few minutes.
Call/Fax Governor Perry NOW!
Last night, Texas Senator Wendy Davis (D-Fort Worth) filibustered a key fiscal matters bill that must be passed in order for the state budget to balance. If the bill’s supporters in the Senate aren’t able to muster a four-fifths majority to revive the bill today, Governor Perry will be forced to call a special session of the Texas Legislature. The governor has warned the Democrats that if they succeed in killing this fiscal matters bill and forcing a special session, he will make sure that the special session includes other issues they killed during the regular session. We need YOU to call and/or fax Governor Perry’s office TODAY and ask that he include campus carry in that list of issues.
While Students for Concealed Carry on Campus is a nonpartisan organization that enjoyed the support of a number of prominent Democrats (most notably Senator John Whitmire) during the 2011 Texas Legislative Session, there is little question that certain Democratic lawmakers played key roles in killing our campus carry bills. As you’ll recall, two Democratic Senators ( http://www.facebook.com/l/ccb57mc__jTwz97RJW-p0bNXdIg/tinyurl.com/3qdt78o) managed to slow down the progress of Senator Wentworth’s SB 354 by lying to both their colleagues and the public about the bill’s potential impact. And when Senator Wentworth finally got campus carry passed out of the Senate as an amendment to another bill, a Democrat in the House managed to kill that bill on a parliamentary point of order. Despite having the support of at least 90 of 150 Representatives and 20 of 31 Senators, campus carry failed because a small minority was able to tie up the legislation with political gamesmanship.
Please contact the governor’s office TODAY (even if you’ve already done so in the past), and ask that campus carry be added to the special session call.
The Honorable Rick Perry
Office of the Governor
VOICE: (512) 463-1782
FAX: (512) 463-1849 (Remember, you can send two free faxes per day from your web browser, using FaxZero.com)
Thank you,
Students for Concealed Carry on Campus
http://www.facebook.com/l/ccb57DgcGliTH6CabhCNqb4Belw/www.StudentsForCampusCarry.org
Last night, Texas Senator Wendy Davis (D-Fort Worth) filibustered a key fiscal matters bill that must be passed in order for the state budget to balance. If the bill’s supporters in the Senate aren’t able to muster a four-fifths majority to revive the bill today, Governor Perry will be forced to call a special session of the Texas Legislature. The governor has warned the Democrats that if they succeed in killing this fiscal matters bill and forcing a special session, he will make sure that the special session includes other issues they killed during the regular session. We need YOU to call and/or fax Governor Perry’s office TODAY and ask that he include campus carry in that list of issues.
While Students for Concealed Carry on Campus is a nonpartisan organization that enjoyed the support of a number of prominent Democrats (most notably Senator John Whitmire) during the 2011 Texas Legislative Session, there is little question that certain Democratic lawmakers played key roles in killing our campus carry bills. As you’ll recall, two Democratic Senators ( http://www.facebook.com/l/ccb57mc__jTwz97RJW-p0bNXdIg/tinyurl.com/3qdt78o) managed to slow down the progress of Senator Wentworth’s SB 354 by lying to both their colleagues and the public about the bill’s potential impact. And when Senator Wentworth finally got campus carry passed out of the Senate as an amendment to another bill, a Democrat in the House managed to kill that bill on a parliamentary point of order. Despite having the support of at least 90 of 150 Representatives and 20 of 31 Senators, campus carry failed because a small minority was able to tie up the legislation with political gamesmanship.
Please contact the governor’s office TODAY (even if you’ve already done so in the past), and ask that campus carry be added to the special session call.
The Honorable Rick Perry
Office of the Governor
VOICE: (512) 463-1782
FAX: (512) 463-1849 (Remember, you can send two free faxes per day from your web browser, using FaxZero.com)
Thank you,
Students for Concealed Carry on Campus
http://www.facebook.com/l/ccb57DgcGliTH6CabhCNqb4Belw/www.StudentsForCampusCarry.org
mortablunt
Member
I want this for Maryland, where I'm about to start college. It seems like the school beleives that violent dangers will be defeated by saying please stop and not fighting back. I'm getting a knife set which will double for cooking.
TexasBill
Member
Perry is already in favor of Campus Carry. The question is does he place a high enough priority on it to make a topic for the special session? The budget is going to be contentious enough and there are other issues more pressing to other Texans. Plus, Perry may look at the Parking Lot bill and decide that's good enough for this session.
The big thing to remember right now is that Perry is quite possibly setting up a run for the Republican nomination for President. That means he is probably going to pick issues he sees as political "winners" for the session. Good Tea Party stuff.
The big thing to remember right now is that Perry is quite possibly setting up a run for the Republican nomination for President. That means he is probably going to pick issues he sees as political "winners" for the session. Good Tea Party stuff.
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