Can 380acp be better than 9mm?

And yet, FBI data says, .22Lr is the most commonly used caliber. So much so that CCI and Federal have designed .22Lr Punch and Uppercut respectively as a defensive load. They claim better penetration than even .380. Which is absolutely nuts on what they have been able to do with modern bullet design. Wonder if more will give .380 the same treatment?
It has gotten alot better for the 380 in the past 10 years. So i bet it might. With alot more new shooters going with micro 380’s. I would bet money some better loads for it will come out.
 
And yet, FBI data says, .22Lr is the most commonly used caliber. So much so that CCI and Federal have designed .22Lr Punch and Uppercut respectively as a defensive load. They claim better penetration than even .380. Which is absolutely nuts on what they have been able to do with modern bullet design. Wonder if more will give .380 the same treatment?
When they say 22lr is the most commonly used cartridge. I take it that includes 22lr from a rifle.
 
It has gotten alot better for the 380 in the past 10 years. So i bet it might. With alot more new shooters going with micro 380’s. I would bet money some better loads for it will come out.
Was it LeHigh or Underwood that made a solid full copper .380 like 10 years ago? Think it was like a 90 or 95gr bullet.
 
Was it LeHigh or Underwood that made a solid full copper .380 like 10 years ago? Think it was like a 90 or 95gr bullet.

I thought it was buffalo bore, but its been so long, I forgot. Might have to look it up. My friend has some, I shot a few mags from my P238, It stung the hand pretty good.
 
And yet, FBI data says, .22Lr is the most commonly used caliber. So much so that CCI and Federal have designed .22Lr Punch and Uppercut respectively as a defensive load. They claim better penetration than even .380. Which is absolutely nuts on what they have been able to do with modern bullet design. Wonder if more will give .380 the same treatment?
I would guess that .22lr is the most common caliber because it is the cheapest and easiest to get.
 
Was it LeHigh or Underwood that made a solid full copper .380 like 10 years ago? Think it was like a 90 or 95gr bullet.

ARX (powdered copper and resin) and Lehigh (solid copper) designs for fluted bullets were both patented in the first quarter of 2016.
 
Rohrbaugh R9 and Remington RM380
How is the recoil on the R9?
Too bad the RM380 showed up when it did, when Big Green was taking on water, and there was that weirdness with the takedown pin falling out, if racking the slide slowly, and the gun held sideways.
Moon
 
My friend has some, I shot a few mags from my P238, It stung the hand pretty good.
That's the tradeoff of trying for hot loads in a small gun. The 365 will run 9+p, but it takes a really mellow-shooting little gun, and makes it pretty rappy.
I'll make the same bargain as I do with Full Charge Wadcutters in a J-snub, better to have less power, and manageable recoil. Too, it's hard to practice with loads that pound you, and your gun.
Anyway, we'll see what the future brings to .380 loads.
Moon
 
That's the tradeoff of trying for hot loads in a small gun. The 365 will run 9+p, but it takes a really mellow-shooting little gun, and makes it pretty rappy.
I'll make the same bargain as I do with Full Charge Wadcutters in a J-snub, better to have less power, and manageable recoil. Too, it's hard to practice with loads that pound you, and your gun.
Anyway, we'll see what the future brings to .380 loads.
Moon
Have you found any feeding issues with +p in the 365?
 
That's the tradeoff of trying for hot loads in a small gun. The 365 will run 9+p, but it takes a really mellow-shooting little gun, and makes it pretty rappy.
I'll make the same bargain as I do with Full Charge Wadcutters in a J-snub, better to have less power, and manageable recoil. Too, it's hard to practice with loads that pound you, and your gun.
Anyway, we'll see what the future brings to .380 loads.
Moon
I have a glock 25 and 28 now. I did some hot loads to try it out when i first got them. They were HOTTT. It was closer to a glock 44 than it was to a glock 19. Those glocks are soft shooters. Compared to my ppk
 
Fortunately, I can operate a compact 9x19 pistol without issue so given the choice of the same pistol chambered in 9x19 or 389 ACP, I'd choose the 9x19.

But, I've been carrying a 380 ACP pistol on and off since the early 1980's. Mostly this has been a Colt Mustang or Kimber Micro but also a Walther PPK for a bit.

The Colt Mustang/Kimber Micro are smaller than any similar 9x19 pistol and the recoil is pleasant with the locked breech design.

I have a Beretta M84, Colt 1908, Browning 1911-380, Walther PPK, Sig P238, and a Kel Tec P3-AT. Each are fun to shoot but have their minor disadvantages for me over the Mustang/.Micro pistols.

I have S&W M&P Shield, Glock 43, and Kimber Micro 9 all chambered in 9x19 but they are larger pistols than the Mustang/Micro pistols. If I'd carry them, I'd rather go to my HK P30SK pistols.

My personnel preference and others will have their own preferences.

I can understand why someone might like a pistol with larger capacity chambered in 380 ACP.

But one has to realize the limitations of the 380 ACP round versus the 9x19 round. I consider the 380 ACP round a short range round. I load only round nose bullets as they are effective against layers of clothing and hollow points tend not to expand to 380 ACP velocities.

It is good we have options.
I'm curious what advantage you find in the Kimber Micro vs. the Browning 1911-380.
 
A self defense round needs to reliably expand when entering it's target and NOT overpenetrate, where it could hit an innocent bystander. With a given frontal area the bullet needs sufficient velocity for proper bullet expansion and sufficient bullet mass for proper penetration.

It's the multi-fabric test that is the most difficult for proper hollow point expansion. Multiple layers of fabric is exactly what needs to be overcome in cold weather climates. A normal 9mm round has marginal expansion going through multiple layers of fabric. A +P round is necessary for reliable expansion through multiple layers of fabric. There is just no way for a .380, which has the same frontal area as a 9mm, with it's smaller shellcase carrying a small powder load to have both the required velocity and mass to properly expand and sufficiently penetrate reliably through multiple layers of clothing.

A .380 may work fine in warm weather where people are not wearing multiple layers of clothing. But it's not going to work reliably in Minnesota winters. If you can't handle a +P 9 mm cartridge, then you need to find a round with a reduced powder load and a smaller frontal area that will reliably expand and has enough mass for proper penetration. You can't have your cake an eat it too. That is where the .30 Super Carry could shine. Instead of trying to make the .30 SC a direct replacement for a 9 x 19mm, which it will never be, it would be a better replacement for the MARGINAL .380 ACP. You could have reliable expansion AND proper penetration, and it would be softer shooting. It just won't make as large of a hole as a 9 x 19mm.
Expansion isn't everything. Preferable? Yes. But a FMJ round will kill you graveyard dead.
In my opinion, shot placement trumps expansion.
 
Interesting topic from a Hickok45 video. I thought it may create a good conversation with the forum.


In not so distant future the FBI will hire researchers to establish that .380 ACP is as effective as 9mm Luger. The new service weapon will be G25.
 
How is the recoil on the R9?
Too bad the RM380 showed up when it did, when Big Green was taking on water, and there was that weirdness with the takedown pin falling out, if racking the slide slowly, and the gun held sideways.
Moon

It seemed very similar to original LCP, however, after shooting box of 50 out of each my hand felt sore longer after shooting the R9. This means recoil impulse is worse. They make suitable defensive loads for that gun like SiG 365 or Hornady Critical Defense Lite.
 
I have a glock 25 and 28 now. I did some hot loads to try it out when i first got them. They were HOTTT. It was closer to a glock 44 than it was to a glock 19. Those glocks are soft shooters. Compared to my ppk
There was a power poster, on another forum, who claimed to be loading .380s, for his G42, up to 1100'sec, or more....90 grain bullets. It is my impression that the 42 is overbuilt for caliber, and would likely tolerate a fair amount of that foolishness without breaking anything. Recoil is a different question.
If SAAMI ever adopts an actual .380 +P standard, it would make life easier.
Yeah, .380 PPKs aren't any fun for a lot of shooting. I ended up with a really jaundiced view, trying to work up a handload that would run 100 straight. Never succeeded, and, it was suggested that my hand was tired enough, by the end of the session, that it may have contributed to eventual misfeeds.
That Walther was my first centerfire semi-auto, both to own, and to make my own rounds.
It's hard to believe a PPK and a G42 are firing the same cartridge.

It seemed very similar to original LCP, however, after shooting box of 50 out of each my hand felt sore longer after shooting the R9.
The magic of some newer .380s, the G42, and BGs 1.0&2.0, among them, is their relative comfort. I shoot the BGs in our carry gun league, 30 rounds at a session (including strong/weak hand stages), and don't feel the worse for it. I'd never consider shooting an LCP that much.
Moon
 
I just bought a semi-auto that holds 19 rounds.

There was a power poster, on another forum, who claimed to be loading .380s, for his G42, up to 1100'sec, or more....90 grain bullets. It is my impression that the 42 is overbuilt for caliber, and would likely tolerate a fair amount of that foolishness without breaking anything. Recoil is a different question.

Buffalo Bore lists several .380 "+P" "factory loads" in that category.
 
There was a power poster, on another forum, who claimed to be loading .380s, for his G42, up to 1100'sec, or more....90 grain bullets. It is my impression that the 42 is overbuilt for caliber, and would likely tolerate a fair amount of that foolishness without breaking anything. Recoil is a different question.
If SAAMI ever adopts an actual .380 +P standard, it would make life easier.
Yeah, .380 PPKs aren't any fun for a lot of shooting. I ended up with a really jaundiced view, trying to work up a handload that would run 100 straight. Never succeeded, and, it was suggested that my hand was tired enough, by the end of the session, that it may have contributed to eventual misfeeds.
That Walther was my first centerfire semi-auto, both to own, and to make my own rounds.
It's hard to believe a PPK and a G42 are firing the same cartridge.


The magic of some newer .380s, the G42, and BGs 1.0&2.0, among them, is their relative comfort. I shoot the BGs in our carry gun league, 30 rounds at a session (including strong/weak hand stages), and don't feel the worse for it. I'd never consider shooting an LCP that much.
Moon
Does not surprise me. Comparing the G25 to a G19, everything is the same except the barrel. Looks like the same RSA. The 380 barrel is thick. Even a plus plus P load for the 380 is still under the 9mm standard load. I bet the glocks will handle thousands of plus P ammo with not ill effect.

I would have no issues carrying a G28 or G28 with 90 grain bullets going 1100-1200 FPS. And the glocks can have 15 round back up mags.

Also, glock 17 mags work flawless in my G25, The 33 round mags also worked, tho I would not trust my life to them.
 
Less extreme cases of being inconspicuous and undetectable where the smaller size 100% makes the difference ... the only other time a 380 beats a 9mm is when you're not carrying the 9mm!
 
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