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Can a C&R FFL sell a firearm at a gun show?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by CleverNickname, Dec 1, 2007.

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  1. CleverNickname

    CleverNickname Member

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    I got a C&R FFL awhile back mainly for the Brownells/Midway USA discounts, as my interests pretty much lie at the modern end of the firearms spectrum. But I got a Yugo SKS awhile back just because I could get one shipped to my door with the C&R. But now I'm running out of room in my safe, so I want to sell it to make room for a different rifle.

    Now I know it's legal for C&Rs to sell firearms and I know about entering the seller's info in the bound book and all that. What I'm not sure on is whether a C&R FFL can sell at a gun show.

    (emphasis mine)

    Since a C&R is a licensed collector, not an importer, manufacture or dealer, the law shown above seems to indicate that they may not conduct business at a gun show. But I know that people buy guns with their C&R FFLs at gun shows all the time, and the above law doesn't separate purchasing guns from selling guns.

    So am I missing some other law somewhere else that lets C&R FFLs buy and sell at gun shows, or is it not legal?
     
  2. Gator

    Gator Member

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    If its legal in Illinois, I'm sure its legal in Texas :)
     
  3. CleverNickname

    CleverNickname Member

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    Ok but what I'm saying is that it doesn't appear to me to be legal anywhere.
     
  4. Mojo-jo-jo

    Mojo-jo-jo Member

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    As a C&R holder, you are not conducting business. You are simply selling a personally held firearm to another private individual. As long as private sales are legal in your state, you can do this whether at a gun show or in your driveway.

    Since it is part of your C&R collection, you have to log it out of your bound book. You will need the buyer's name, address, DOB, and DL number (iirc). I would also write up a short bill of sale including the above and a description of the firearm and serial number, with a copy for each party.
     
  5. uneasy_rider

    uneasy_rider Member

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    I have used my C&R for purchases at gun shows, without a problem.
     
  6. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    as another poster stated, no business is being conducted when a C&R holder buys or sells a firearm anywhere, as far as the batf is concerned since a C&R license does not allow you to conduct business in firearms.

    IANAL - but in illinois it is a little iffy. you can legally have it shipped to your home, but I am not so sure you can do so directly at a gun show as the state waiting period might still apply. The Illlinois laws on these things are very confusing and scattered about.
     
  7. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    You're fine as long as you keep it sane.

    If you order 30 mosin- nagants from AIM and turn around and sell them at a gun show the next weekend, the BATF might find you a person of interest.
     
  8. stevemis

    stevemis Member

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    Why not? It might be the only way to hand-pick one yourself... order several, keep the "best" one and dispose of the rest. Don't "collectors" want to have the very best specimen? Doesn't it sound plausible in this situation? It might not be wise to sell them at a profit... remember, the main reason why business exists is for profit.
     
  9. MDW GUNS

    MDW GUNS Member

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    C&R is a collector license.
    Beside, anyone can sell at a gun show, at least in Maine/NH.
     
  10. Neo-Luddite

    Neo-Luddite Member

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    but I am not so sure you can do so directly at a gun show as the state waiting period might still apply.

    Private sales in IL ARE subject to the waiting periods of 24 hrs for long guns, 72 for pistols regardless of any other consideration. The FFL 3 only matters in that, in addition to any other record keeping requirements (IL has these, listed on back of FOID card) you have to log the buyer info into your log.

    You having a C/R has nothing to do with the transaction per se, it neither enables or forbids it in any special way--you're just selling off an item from your collection.

    Now, of course, if you have a whole table of sks's for sale at a gun show that you just bought with your C/R last week--THAT would tend to construe dealing in firearms without a license.
     
  11. mp510

    mp510 Member

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    The idea has actually been presented to the ATF in the past, and ATF's response was that sort of behavior was dealing, sense the collector was buying guns for resale, not just the enhancement of his collection.
     
  12. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    Link to references? I've heard the contrary, it'd be interesting to know which was factual.
     
  13. yesit'sloaded

    yesit'sloaded Member

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    Probably both. The ATF is known for giving out changing opinions. Even a written opinion is only valid at that time and only for that one individual that is sent the letter.
     
  14. scout26

    scout26 Member

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    If you sell to another FFL (either 01 or 03) would the waiting periods still apply ???
     
  15. Neo-Luddite

    Neo-Luddite Member

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    Generally speaking, no.
     
  16. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    There is no waiting period to sell to a dealer FFL. The law is murky about whether the waiting period applies when selling to a C&R FFL. The only C&R transaction I made that was not shipped to me from out of state was where I arranged for the transaction several weeks in advance of actually picking it up, so I was several weeks into the 3 day waiting period.

    One thing about private transactions is if it happens at a gun show, you have to use the instant check system. I would bet not one in 10,000 people in Illinois know that. I am not real sure that C&R transactions are, or are not, exempt.

    A lot of the gun laws in Illinois were written by people who know almost nothing about guns, or how guns are bought and sold, and are enacted mostly to hassle law abiding gun owners, just because they can. So they tend to be poorly written, and nearly impossible for the average citizen to understand.
     
  17. mp510

    mp510 Member

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    I was recalling a ATF letter somebody had posted on Gunboards (or possibly another C&R oriented site) 2-3 years ago.
     
  18. Blackfork

    Blackfork Member

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    What's obvious...

    .......is that the state and federal bureacracy has fubared gunlaws beyond reason or comprehension.
     
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