Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Can a full auto be gifted down to you from a relative when they pass away?

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by Vector, Dec 20, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Vector

    Vector Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    675
    Location:
    USA
    As the title says, can a full auto be gifted down to you from a relative when they pass away? My Uncle was in the Korean War and has a few guns left in his collection, including a full auto that he loves to shoot. He does not have any license for it to the best of my knowledge, but I think it might be old enough to have been grandfathered in. Then again knowing my Uncle, he couldn't care less about what his government says regarding what guns he owns.

    Anyway he said that when he passes on he is leaving most things to his kids, but wants me to have a couple of his guns, including the full auto. Needless to say I have no clue if he is breaking any federal law by owning it, nor do I have a clue if he can legally pass it down to me without me having a federal license to own a full auto.

    Anyone know for sure?
     
  2. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,302
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    Short answer is yes, an NFA item transfers without charge as part of settling an estate. No signoff needed either.


    This assuming the receiver is able to own one in the first place; state law and personal background history.

    There is no "federal license" to own a full auto firearm though. There is a tax issue really. Each firearm must have a paid National Firearms Act tax stamp along with a form of some kind (form type depends on how he got the firearms). Might want to enlist the help of an NFA dealer, but it's not too complicated with some research.

    And the age of his firearm doesn't matter, there is no "grandfathered in". Either the firearm has a tax stamp and is legal, or there is no stamp and it's a big old felony and there is no path to making the firearms legal.

    But yes, for a legally transferable NFA firearm it's pretty straightforward to leave it to someone in a will.

    Moving to NFA forum.
     
  3. GoingQuiet

    GoingQuiet Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Melbourne, FL
    This is a big problem - a lot of the older vets have bringback machineguns that were never registered when they brought it back or during any of the amnesty periods that uncle sam made available for legal registration.

    Based on the statement that he doesn't have any papers - and doesn't care - I'd say you've got contraband on your hands.
     
  4. medalguy
    • Contributing Member

    medalguy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    3,190
    Location:
    New Mexico
    Goingquiet is spot-on. Assuming the gun was a bring-back and never registered with the BATF, there is no way at all that it can now be registered or whenever he passes away that the gun can be legally transferred to you or anyone else. As said, it is considered contraband and as such can net you several federal gun charges each resulting in long prison sentences and fines.

    Try to determine whether he might have registered the gun during an amnesty period in 1968. If not, the only options you have are (1) abandon the gun to BATF who will destroy it, or (2) cut it into several pieces and then you could sell the parts as a kit which could be rebuilt into a semi firearm. BATF has specific requirements as to how a firearm must be cut in order to render it useless. What a shame.
     
  5. bigfatdave

    bigfatdave Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Messages:
    5,961
    Location:
    Near Camp Perry
    Can we get a sticky to cover this?
    It is going to come up more as the WWII generation passes, and the rules (while grossly unconstitutional) are pretty clear cut.

    I'm sure the OP's Uncle has legal registered toys or semi-auto versions, of course ... nobody could possibly have an attic full of full auto guns, the BATFE would be able to detect them with their "fun switch radar".
     
  6. LHRGunslinger

    LHRGunslinger Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    660
    Location:
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    If'n these NFA laws are so blatantly unconstitutional why don't we get on the NRA or another RTKBA org to fight the laws?
     
  7. UpTheIrons

    UpTheIrons Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    South-Central Texas
    Because the hysterical cries from the Brady Bunch, the VPC, MAIG, and their willing accomplices in the press and Congress will be all about how this is going to give kids and other precious snowflakes (not to mention criminals!!! :eek:) access to full-auto assault rifles and machineguns with "the shoulder thing that goes up" and it will be an uphill battle all the way.

    I'm not saying it is worth pursuing - I think it is - but it will be a long, long, hard road to get NFA '34 repealed.

    Shoot, I'd be (temporarily) happy getting suppressors moved out of the $200 category into the $5 one.
     
  8. withdrawn34

    withdrawn34 Member.

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2008
    Messages:
    529
    The NRA and other RTKBA organizations have to choose their battles. There are multiple 2A issues, and right now, it would probably be more conducive to fight the BATFE on the long gun reporting thing, as well as trying to get shall issue CC in more places.

    The day will come when we fight the NFA, but it won't be for a while. Is it terrible? Of course. Grossly unconstitional? Absolutely. But unfortunately it is reality, and we have to choose what we put our energy towards by the most pressing issues at any time.

    As for the OP, this is really a tough situation. Unbelievable to think the country that your grandfather fought for has come to this...
     
  9. Spec ops Grunt

    Spec ops Grunt Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    1,012
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Most RTKBAs are going after getting concealed carry in all states. After that, IMO, they should go after the age requirement for handguns (NRA has started to already), then Suppressors (it's a health issue!), then the rest of the NFA.


    The problem is, they have to do this while fending off attacks from gun control advocates. The attempts to get lead regulated, for example.
     
  10. bigfatdave

    bigfatdave Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Messages:
    5,961
    Location:
    Near Camp Perry
    What? It doesn't "sunset" like the AWB did?
    Well that's just stupid!
     
  11. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,493
    Location:
    Central PA
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=558082

    Here is a recent thread that explains the issues with contraband machine guns and what can/must be done with them.

    It is quite a shame, but your uncle "not caring" doesn't change the fact that if a police officer ever requests to see his registration papers for that gun, your uncle will have to "not care" about a 10 year prison sentence and/or up to $250,000 in fines.

    It's all fine and good to be bold in the face of tyrannical laws, but it is very important to understand just how VERY high the penalties are.

    If you accept the bequest of an illegal unregistered machine gun, you are really inheriting a felony record and a DECADE behind bars. (Along with the loss of income, relationships, property, RKBA ... ever, etc.) The bar is very high for that kind of "civil disobedience."
     
  12. medalguy
    • Contributing Member

    medalguy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    3,190
    Location:
    New Mexico
    True, and keep in mind it's not just a single charge you have to try to defend against, but multiple:

    (1) Possession of an unregistered weapon
    (2) Failure to pay tax
    (3) Failure to register the weapon in the NFA
    (4) Receipt of an unregistered weapon
    I think there's more but can't remember them all. They don't miss many chances. Definitely not worth it as each charge carries ten years.
     
  13. Vector

    Vector Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    675
    Location:
    USA
    What is amazing to me is all the different 10 year sentences for having one in your possession.
    If a gang banger uses a full auto in a drive by shooting, are all those charges brought against him to where he spends 40 years in jail? If not, then why not if someone like my Uncle who is in his 80's could potentially face those type of charges for having an unregistered gun he brought back after serving his country?
     
  14. Vector

    Vector Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    675
    Location:
    USA
    I guess I thought you needed a special license or extra requirements to own a full auto, not just have the money to pay for a tax.

    As to the receivers eligibility to own one in the first place, what happens if they live in a restrictive state like NJ, NY, CA, etc.?

    Also, do they do any special background check on someone beyond what it takes to own a regular handgun?

    Are those with CCW's good to go if the firearm is deemed legal?
     
  15. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,493
    Location:
    Central PA
    Nope! Just money, patience, and a clean record.

    All depends on the particular laws of that state. Some (like MD) with terrible gun laws are just fine with machine guns. Others (NY, NJ, CA) specifically prohibit them. The ATF will not approve your Form 4 or Form 1 if your state of residence does not allow the item you want to buy or build.

    Not really. If you can pass the NICS check to buy a Title I gun, then you can pass the check done for an NFA weapon.

    Not sure what you mean. You will have to go through the same registration process and background check EVERY time you want to buy or make another NFA weapon. It doesn't matter if you have a CCW or a Top Secret clearance -- and it doesn't matter if you've already registered 100 of them. Isn't bureaucracy a hoot? ;)
     
  16. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    8,925
    Location:
    Californicated Colorado
    edit...

    dang it Sam!
     
  17. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    Messages:
    6,606
    I have never seen in person a genuine FA bring back but if there was one in my family knowing what sacrifice it took to get it I can say it would be a cold day before I surrendered it. Some PVC and a shovel would solve all the problems until hopefully a better day.
    Seeing the guns run through shredders is enough to let me just let one lie in peace, if somebody digs it up, well then we will all know what gramps did with it before he crossed over.
     
  18. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,493
    Location:
    Central PA
    What? Whad-I-dooo? Post right on top of you? Hate that!

    If you want ... just this once ... we could allow a "Me too! +1!"

    :D
     
  19. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    8,925
    Location:
    Californicated Colorado
    Yeah, my post was almost identical.

    Okay then... what he said.
     
  20. OcelotZ3

    OcelotZ3 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    Messages:
    501
    My dad had one, a "Colt Armalite AR-15" full auto from Vietnam, SN less than 5000. It was registered during the 1968 amnesty.

    Unfortunately, he was in the process of selling when he died so I didn't get to keep it.

    Interesting about the "free" part. I believe that when I transferred a SBR from the estate it cost $5, but the current version (1/31/2011) of form 5 doesn't indicate any cost.
     
  21. KosmicKrunch

    KosmicKrunch Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    199
    The requirements are the same as for any other firearm to own with the addition of finger prints, local law approval sign off and is the firearm previously registered with a form 1 & $200 BATFE/Treasury stamp (actually looks like a canceled Post Office Stamp) Not sure what color they are now, mine was a bluish green color for both my Mac10 and a Colt Thompson. Neither were bring backs from anything. I would have loved to have had my dads bring back M1/M2 that he repatriated from an NVA fighter in black Jammies. The gun is now CUT (dag nabbit) and on a wall board plaque with his bring back papers.
     
  22. UpTheIrons

    UpTheIrons Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    South-Central Texas
    Your honor - I move to strike this from the record - speculation!

    That's a pretty huge "if" right there. As much as the antis cry and whine about FA weapons being used in crime, their actual nefarious usages are very few and very far between. The last one I remember is that California bank robbery that turned into a huge shootout back in the early 90's (I think). Both of them wound up dead, so there was no court case to see how the charges would have lined up.

    The problem with the hypothetical is the relative inaccessibility of FA weapons. Those folks who have an unregistered one are quiet about it, and those with legal ones have so much money tied up in them that they guard them very carefully. I'm not saying they don't get stolen, but it is more on along the lines of a stolen Maybach vs. a stolen Ford - there just ain't many of them out there to steal.
     
  23. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    8,925
    Location:
    Californicated Colorado
    There's quite a difference between gifting and bequeathing when it comes to firearms. The title is not accurate.
     
  24. glock281

    glock281 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    22
    If you can not find any Registeration paperwork contact an attorney. They can expain all your options to you which mainly depends on if you have the or any paperwork on it.
     
  25. Dreamcast270mhz

    Dreamcast270mhz Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2010
    Messages:
    406
    edit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2011
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page