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can I go to jail for this?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by megatronrules, Jan 10, 2006.

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  1. megatronrules

    megatronrules Member

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    I was walking out of the local coffe shop last night when I noticed a man behaving very stangely,when I say strangely I mean he appeared to be watching my every move. I noticed him right when I pulled into the parking lot,he made an effort to see where I parked and even continued to watch me thorugh the window once I was inside. As I was coming out he starts walking towards me (this is out of view of the people in the shop BTW) as hes walking towards me I reach under my sweater and grip my colt 1911 and flip off the thumb safety as I draw it.

    I keep the gun behind my leg out of his view,I asked him what he wanted he didn't answer me and after he ignored my telling him to stop several times I brought the gun up and pointed it at him (finger off the trigger ofcourse). I then yelled to him "Stop I have a gun don't come any closer" he then stood there for a second and turned and ran off. Now I don't know if he was up to no good but I got a very bad vibe from him my gut was telling me this guys trouble. my question here is did I break the law? I'am in florida if this matters at all? I would never pull my weapon on anyone unless I felt something was wrong. Have any of you here ever done this before,draw you ccw because you feet something wasen't right without seeing a weapon on the BG? Did I do the right
    thing?
     
  2. hoppinglark

    hoppinglark Member

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    the question is
    "did you call the local law enforcement afterwards????"

    It's not what you do it's how you do it.
    If you feel you were in fact threatened then you need to fill out a police report and a description of what the guy looked like.

    otherwise HIS story is the first one they get and it will sound like this...

    "I was on my way to get some coffee and then all of the sudden a loony NRA guy comes out and screams at me, and then he pointed a gun at me ....."

    Always, Always, Always, call the local law enforcement! The first one to call will probally win in court...
     
  3. Tulsa Shooter

    Tulsa Shooter Member

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    Any guy that is scoping you out then comes straight towards you not saying anything even after repeated attempts to tell the man to stop is up to no good.
     
  4. rock jock

    rock jock Member

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    Can you articulate exactly what the threat was?
     
  5. V4Vendetta

    V4Vendetta member

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    In my opinion I admire you. You survived. That's whats important. If you have to warn a guy several times to stop coming towards you & he keeps coming, start firing.
     
  6. Alex45ACP

    Alex45ACP Member

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    If you noticed the guy before you even got out of the car, why didn't you just drive to a different coffee shop?

    I highly doubt this would have been a "good shoot", unless the guy pulled out a knife or something.
     
  7. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm curious too. What threat did he make? The key is if you could convince a jury that a reasonable man would have been in fear of his life or great bodily harm. If you can't articulate anything more then what you told us, I don't think you meet that standard.

    V4Vendetta said;
    I hope a deaf mute never approaches you for any reason, or a mentally retarded person. You'll kill an innocent, wind up in prison and set back CCW in your state.

    Jeff
     
  8. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    In Texas at least you broke the law, and I believe Florida is the same. You can only draw the weapon under the same circumstances as you would shoot the weapon.

    Now, having said that, you are alive and the guy was clearly not an innocent or he would have called the cops about some "crazy guy with a gun" so....

    I will not say I have done the same thing, but I will not say I never have either :D
     
  9. Shootcraps

    Shootcraps Member

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    IMHO, no. You drew a weapon against a man who made no threat against you and had no weapon. You should have ran to your car and then called 911 and told them there was a man acting very strangely outside of the cafe.

    If you use deadly force against an unarmed person, you're gonna have a helluva time explaining it in court. You need to start researching Florida's laws on self defense.
     
  10. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    If the matter wasn't worth reporting to the police, it wasn't worth clearing leather over. No offense, but it needs to be truly serious in all respects.

    I'd have driven away from the creep and avoided the entire situation.
     
  11. WT

    WT Member

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    I see nothing here that calls for pointing a firearm at another person.
     
  12. V4Vendetta

    V4Vendetta member

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    "I hope a deaf mute never approaches you for any reason, or a mentally retarded person. You'll kill an innocent, wind up in prison and set back CCW in your state."


    My statement was that if you already have a gun aimed at someone & they keep coming after you say not to, THEN fire. Even a deaf-mute could understand a .45 aimed at them. If not, they should be in a hospital with someone to watch over them.
     
  13. megatronrules

    megatronrules Member

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    I diddn't call the police and I guess that was wrong BUT neither did he so that tells me he was infact going to try something,I would have waited to see if drew or tried to draw a weapon before firing. In my mind an innocent person dosen't ignore repeated orders to stop or not communicate with me. if he had a flat tire and needed help for example why the silent jousting match? I know what the other poster meant about a deaf mute approaching me thing is they would atleast make noises and/or use sign language. I used to work with these kinds of people years ago believe me this guy was no mute or mentally challaged/downs sydrome.

    I guess hind sight is always 20/20 and I SHOULD HAVE drove to another coffee shop,but I coulden't run to my car but I was to far from it if he had a kinfe he could have closed the gap,or if he had a gun he could simply shoot me while I was running to my car. I was going on the logic what IF he had a gun or knife and stabbed or shot me? then what? I'd rather be judged by twelve then carried by six. I believed I made the right call under the circumstances but was looking for opinions from you guys to,I guess I'll react differnatly next time.
     
  14. V4Vendetta

    V4Vendetta member

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    " I believed I made the right call under the circumstances but was looking for opinions from you guys to,I guess I'll react differnatly next time."

    You did the right thing. LISTEN TO YOUR INSTINCTS!!!!! Your subconsious will almost always pick up on things that your regular mind doesn't.
     
  15. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    V4Vendetta said;
    Still would be doubtfull you could convince a jury that a visibly unarmed person who failed to heed your command to stop was such a deadly threat. The first thing that I would have asked if I was called to investigate that shooting would have been, why did you point your weapon at him in the first place?

    I think the better option would have been to put your hand on your weapon, preparing to draw, but not brandishing your firearm.

    I have often had a gut feeling during a traffic stop and approached the vehicle with my weapon in hand and held against my stong side thigh. I was prepared if I encountered trouble and the occupants of the vehicle were none the wiser.

    Jeff
     
  16. WillBrayJr

    WillBrayJr Member

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    This is America, so you can go to jail for anything including breaking wind. It's truly a shame that this country has the laws it does. Law Makers need to worry about real things, reducing violent crimes and make harsher penalties for violent offenders. Our "Law Makers" need to study the 1920s.
     
  17. megatronrules

    megatronrules Member

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    thanks all and jeff yes your right it wasen't the best course of action looking back on it. I had it right I guess right(drawing my gun and keeping it out of sight) up untill the part where I brought the gun up and pointed it at him. When I worked as bail enforcement agent I once had to shoot a man we went to areest but he was weilding an axe and refused to drop it so I guess thats a completely differant ballgame,he was an obvious threat.

    From what I can gather floridas stand your ground law refers to an obvious threat this woulden't have met that I don't think now. I guess we live and learn I'll know better next time but I do stand by my intial thoughts this guy was a BG the simple fact HE diddn't call the police on ME confirms this to me.
     
  18. f4t9r

    f4t9r Member

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    then if hes laying dead on the ground with no weapon you better have one to put in his hand and no wittness to the ordeal or you are in BIG TROUBLE.

    putting your gun in a useful position was a good idea and giving him a warning. Pulling the gun and pointing it at him could get you in a pickle.
    Tuff spot to be in glad it worked out. Your life must be threatened to start firing and walking at you is not enough to use deadly force. Go to the side of the car that puts the car between you and him until you can find out whats going on. Got a cell phone call the cops and make a report ASAP.
     
  19. sturmruger

    sturmruger Member

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    I had something similar happen to me, but was able to keep my distance so I didn't need to draw. I think If I were you I would have put my hand on my gun, but not pulled it out of the holster. I think I would have been alarmed as well. Sometimes you just get that vibe from people and when that happens you need to follow your gut.

    Situations like this are why I decided I need to have another tool to use, I settled on pepper spray to act as another line of defense. You can pull out a pepper spray container and not have to worry so much about all of the legal ramifications of pulling a gun.
     
  20. LJWebster1

    LJWebster1 Member

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    TexaSIG, he in fact did not break the law in Texas. Texas law specifically allows for the threat of use of deadly force if it will avoid the use of force. I can give you the citation if you'd like.

    Also, in Texas, the assailant does not need to have had a weapon, rather, you just need to have believed there was the imminent possibility of serious bodily harm. However, convincing a jury is what you have to be worried about. You probably would have lost that one. Better to try to get out of there unless he escalates.

    Also, by pulling the gun, you just gave him an excuse to shoot you. If you are not going to shoot, it's probably best not to draw.

    And f4t9r, I hope you are kidding. Not only is it absolutely stupid to tamper with evidence, and turn a possibly justifiable shoot into jail time, but who has a throw down gun on them anyway?
     
  21. dolanp

    dolanp Member

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    Not entirely, see Texas PC 9.04. However it still may not be adviseable unless there is a real threat.

    Can't say I would have done it differently if I was worried, keeping in mind the 21-foot rule.
     
  22. AirForceShooter

    AirForceShooter Member

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    here's the rule:
    Draw gun.. Shoot gun.
    If you don't shoot you have a BIG problem.
    You weren't in fear for your life. The only reason you can give as justifiable.
    In Florida drawing and not shooting is brandishing and that's a no no.

    AFS
     
  23. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    I'll be damned... somehow I have been misreading that for years.

    Wow, thanks.

    Very interesting.

    I sort of always stopped with 9.04 with the first part

     
  24. UWstudent

    UWstudent member

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    something similar..

    i was using a mall bathroom stall and just as i got done a group of "thug" wannabees just walked in the door, lifted up their shirt (presenting they were armed with some sort of rusted revolver) and the other pushed his switch blade button and a 4 inch knife popped out of the grips and the third stayed back to watch cover.

    honestly, i would have threw my wallet at them but i'm gonna throw another factor in this mix. my 7 year old brother was with me using the stall next to me.
    my gut instincts made me pull out my kimber .45 and told them i was gonna blow their ****in heads off if they touch my brother..
    well, they ran away as soon as they saw the gun and probably didn't even hear what i said.

    the thing is, i couldn't have acted any different.. this was my gut instinct and my instinct MADE me pull out a gun to protect my brother.

    anyway, they ran off.. i waited for my brother to get done crying and comforted him and we left the mall. i wasn't going to tell security or police, because even through i have a CPL, they wouldn't have been understanding (i live in tacoma).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2006
  25. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    I'm sorry, but some weird guy clearly walking at me who refuses to say anything is a real threat. It's one circumstance where a warning is appropriate. Let him know you will ASSUME he is coming to kill you if he continues to approach. Scream it out so everyone can hear it.

    Deaf mutes are pretty darn rare, and don't usually charge up to strangers while staring at them.
     
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