can I go to jail for this?

[megatronrules]

Yes dolanp I had the 21-foot rule in mind at the time this was going on. I have learned a lesson from this,I had it right the first time before I pointed the gun at him. I'am gonna go out first thing tomorow and get me some pepper spray.

 

[Lupinus]

Was it right? Well I wasn't there. If you truly feel endangered and have no means of escape pulling the gun after several orders to stop IMO isn't overkill. I am no expert that has worked with them for years or anything, but I have delt with several people coming to my counter who were deaf and I didn't know it at first. All made it perfectly clear they couldn't hear me either verbaly or with their hand, pointing to their ears or something and shaking their head. As far as mutes even most mutes to my knowlage can grunt or make some form of noise, agian even so they can easily make it known with their hands.

So ordered several times to stop, coming right at you, makes no signs of slowing or that they can't unerstand you? I'd say that isn't a bad time to pull the gun and reissue the order. Fists can be a deadly weapon, it isn't hard to hide a knife in your sleeve. Legaly it likly would have been a bad shoot though. Course in some places if a guy breaks into your home and you don't first run screaming at the top of your lungs like a five year old girl while the guy is chasing you with a knife it'll land you in court too. If the option to flee is there it may have been better, if not pulling it may not have been all that bad an idea.

 

[megatronrules]

Yes dolanp I had the 21-foot rule in mind at the time this was going on. I have learned a lesson from this,I had it right the first time before I pointed the gun at him. I'am gonna go out first thing tomorow and get me some pepper spray.

 

[UWstudent]

in my last post, i had no way of fleeing.. and this guy could have been trapped, he could have been older and unable of fleeing, had a physical problem.. and since he was out of visibility to any other person, the hostile could have tackeled him to a panic reaction that the victim was going to flee and get him (hostile) arressted.

 

[fiveoboy01]

here's the rule:
Draw gun.. Shoot gun.
If you don't shoot you have a BIG problem.
You weren't in fear for your life. The only reason you can give as justifiable.
In Florida drawing and not shooting is brandishing and that's a no no.

AFS

Just for argument's sake:

You're walking to your car one night. Shady individual approaches you, clutching a knife. You draw, preparing to shoot. As you draw, said individual drops knife, turns tail and runs. Obviously, you do not shoot him in the back.

So, where is the line drawn here? Have you just brandished your weapon, because you did not shoot the knife-weilding scumbag and there was a clear and present danger to your livelihood(though it disappeared before you had completely cleared leather)?

If drawing does not deter the assailant, do you wait until he's within 21 feet, even though you may have seen the knife at a further distance?

Do you wait for him to take a swipe at you with it?

Not every person who defends themselves with a firearm ends up shooting the person who was threatening them. I know that the general consensus is to NOT draw unless you intend to shoot, but it seems that circumstances can change in the blink of an eye.

 

[Trebor]

here's the rule:
Draw gun.. Shoot gun.
If you don't shoot you have a BIG problem.
You weren't in fear for your life. The only reason you can give as justifiable.
In Florida drawing and not shooting is brandishing and that's a no no.

AFS

That's some of the worst advice I've ever seen.

Yes, you should only draw if you in fear for your life. BUT, the very act of producing a firearm changes the situation. If the bad guy turns and runs when you draw, or puts his hands up and drops his weapon, would you still shoot?

This doesn't even get into cases of mistaken identity or situations where the permit holder is wrong in his assesment of the situation.

Shooting someone is self defense is always the LAST thing you want to do, when all the other options are out. If, by drawing the gun, the situation changes so you know longer have to shoot, why would you then shoot?

 

[ka50]

Can you articulate exactly what the threat was?

lol u kiddin, right?

I think I'd rather be tried by 12 for brandishing a weapon, than act too late and be carried by 6.

 

[Shipwreck]

lol u kiddin, right?

I think I'd rather be tried by 12 for brandishing a weapon, than act too late and be carried by 6.

Yes, but U must use some common sense. If you could flee, you must. If that guy went and called the police, he would have been arrested. I have had people on probation for such an event.

A better scenario would have been to return to the car or take a 90 degree turn while walking and continue to give verbal warnings, and then flee. If you are worried about the mute thing, then raise your arm and point at him as you warn him.

I'm all for self defense, but that could have been handled a lot better.

 

[Gunpacker]

If nothing else, I thought you flipped the safety off way too soon. It is easy to flick it off as you bring the gun to eye level. Kinda touchy condition to have alongside your leg IMO.
On the guy, he could have been a panhandler, and they get kind of agressive. I ran into one at a Burger King the other day.
You need to feel that you have a definite threat before you are legally justified, and as far as I can tell, the guy was breaking no law, and the threat was simply a "potential threat".
Yep, you could get into trouble IMO. Just hope that the guy doesn't go to the cops, or you could have a difficult explanation on your hands, and would need to convince the officers that you felt that your life was in danger for whatever reason you had at the time.

 

[Shipwreck]

Well, by not contacting the police afterwards, he pretty much screwed up his story if the other guy does talk to the police.

 

[Deavis]

One question... Where was your non-deadly backup? You carry a gun but not a can of OC spray? Get a holster for it, they are light as air. If the guys doesn't stop, douse him. Our CCW instructor, HPD, gave your exact situation as an example. You cannot use a deadly weapon unless you meet the criteria of the law and someone closing on you does not meet those criteria under *most* circumstances. However, a can of OC spray to the face, a call to the cops, explain he was menacing you...

You're walking to your car one night. Shady individual approaches you, clutching a knife. You draw, preparing to shoot. As you draw, said individual drops knife, turns tail and runs. Obviously, you do not shoot him in the back.

So, where is the line drawn here? Have you just brandished your weapon, because you did not shoot the knife-weilding scumbag and there was a clear and present danger to your livelihood(though it disappeared before you had completely cleared leather)?

There is absolutely no line in your situation. The assailant presented a deadly weapon in a manner that is threatening (brandishing a weapon is an implied threat of violence). You are then authorized to respond with deadly force in Texas. Even if you do not use the weapon, you cannot be charged with brandishing because the assailants actions would have allowed you to use deadly force and therefore it is a moot point that the gun is out. Lastly, you should work on your speed so you can get your gun out a bit faster

 

[Shootcraps]

My statement was that if you already have a gun aimed at someone & they keep coming after you say not to, THEN fire.

Yeah, right. An UNARMED man who is making NO THREAT towards you. Go ahead and shoot. We'll see you on visiting day and bring some cigarettes. They're just like money in prison.

Just think of the line of questioning:

Why did you shoot him?

He was threatening me.

How?

He was walking towards me.

Did he have a weapon?

No.

Did he make any threatening gestures?

No.

Did he make any verbal threats?

No.

So you perceived an unarmed man walking towards and making no threatening gestures as a threat and used deadly force against them?

Yes.


I can see how that would convince a jury that it was a justifiable shoot. You better hope there aren't any deaf mutes on the jury.

 

[shortydog]

You should have ran to your car and then called 911 and told them there was a man acting very strangely outside of the cafe.

this is a damn shame!

 

[Shootcraps]

lol u kiddin, right?

I think I'd rather be tried by 12 for brandishing a weapon, than act too late and be carried by 6.

No, he's not kiddin. You're not gonna be "tried by 12", you're gonne be "judged by 12". The guy trieing you is going to prove that an unarmed man walking towards you isn't a threat and doesn't deserve to be shot and killed.

Your lawyer is going to try and defend against it saying that you were in fear of your life because of the deadly threat of an unarmed man walking towards you. With the evidence provided, you won't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

 

[Shootcraps]

this is a damn shame!

Why is that? Articulate the threat. WHY was he justified in drawing his weapon?

 

[AirForceShooter]

it's not advice, it's the law. Check it out

AFS

 

[jerkface11]

I like the assumption that since the second guy didn't call the cops after having a gun pulled on him he MUST have been a criminal. This ignores the fact that the guy who pulled the gun didn't call the cops either.

 

[Shootcraps]

+1

 

[fiveoboy01]

There is absolutely no line in your situation. The assailant presented a deadly weapon in a manner that is threatening (brandishing a weapon is an implied threat of violence). You are then authorized to respond with deadly force in Texas. Even if you do not use the weapon, you cannot be charged with brandishing because the assailants actions would have allowed you to use deadly force and therefore it is a moot point that the gun is out. Lastly, you should work on your speed so you can get your gun out a bit faster

I do agree with you, I was merely pointing out another posters' statement that a person would be prosecuted for brandising in such an instance if they did not shoot the assailant, though they drew the weapon.

 

[shortydog]

Why is that? Articulate the threat. WHY was he justified in drawing his weapon?

so you are required to " run away and call 911 " ?
it's no wonder their are so many criminals.

 

[Tim Burke]

it's not advice, it's the law. Check it out

The law requires you to shoot the gun if you draw it? Well, who knew? Given that most defensive uses of a firearm don't involve any shots fired, I guess all those people are breaking the law.

 

[Shootcraps]

so you are required to " run away and call 911 " ?

Instead of murdering an unarmed man? Hell yes.

it's no wonder their are so many criminals.

Why was the unarmed man a criminal? What crime did he commit?

 

[pauli]

"so i was sitting outside starbucks, catching part of the alito hearings on the radio. i saw a guy in a cool car pull into the parking lot. couldn't quite tell what it was, and he parked behind a truck, so i had to crane my neck around to see. the guy went inside, but he looked kinda nervous - he didn't even notice the hot chick next to him in line! i'd been watching her for a while, let me tell you. anyway, the hearing adjourned, so i turned off the radio and decided i was gonna get her phone number. before i could get to the door, mr nervous walked out, and that's when it got WEIRD.

he started looking at me real funny, and stuck his hand under his sweat shirt. then he asked me what i wanted, but i didn't want to get involved with some whacko - i just wanted to talk to the girl, you know? so i kept walking towards the door. then he got REAL crazy, started yelling at me to stop, and he pulled a darn gun! the girl was good looking, but man, she wasn't worth getting shot, so i ran like you wouldn't believe.

yeah, i know i shoulda called the cops, but i figured right now, he doesn't know who i am. if i get the cops involved, he will - and he might come after me. dude creeped me out, i don't want to see him again."

there are two sides to every story.

 

[Kurt_M]

FWIW, I believe the only thing you did 'wrong' was not calling the police within minutes of the incident. That was definitely a mistake that could cause a lot of problems in future encounters. Other than that, it sounds to me like you did a good job of staying aware of your surroundings and keeping cool under pressure. Sure, you did have other options available (going to a different coffee shop, staying in the one you went to and calling the police when the creep didn't leave, turning and running, etc. etc.) but you certainly didn't do anything unreasonable. But I'm not a lawyer or a judge or a police officer, so don't place too much stock in my opinion (or that of MANY other posters in this thread).

 

[Shootcraps]

Starbucks IS creepy!!!!