Can somebody in the military bring home a legal captured weapon?

[Grapevine]

I brought a Chicom Type 56 SKS from Vietnam home with me. I have the temporary export license, War Throphy Registration and a copy of my orders with the rifle listed on them. After I had been home for about 6 months, my Dad called and told me I had an official looking letter from The Republic of Vietnam. It contained the Export License from The Republic of Vietnam on official letterhead stationary. I think maybe my paperwork is worth more than the SKS with non matching numbered parts.

Grapevine
Phu Cat AFB RVN Mar 70-71

 

[leadcounsel]

In a word, no working captured firearms.

I consider myself an authority on the matter after this Iraq deployment when this question was asked and I researched the heck out of it.

General Order #1 prohibits the personal possession of personal firearms and munitions in Iraq and Afgahnistan and presumably elsewhere. With notable exception to Afghanistan in 06, when pre-1898 "antique" firearms could be purchased on the market and brought home under an exception to the General Order. However, then there are customs issues and possibly ATF issues and then homestate issues (if any).

For a Servicemember to be able to bring home a weapon, he'd need an exception to the General Order #1. That's generally a nonstarter. Assuming he got that, he'd need clearance from customs. And then any other pertinent federal and state agencies.

Now, a Battalion or larger size unit can accept a gifted weapon on behalf of the US Government, but there is a lot of paperwork involved and sadly the weapon is permanently demilled. They weld a steel rod in the barrel, weld the crown shut, remove the firing pin, and welt the bolt shut. The are letters from the Command, gifting unit, a legal review by JAG, and then off to customs for authorization. A real PITA for a wall-hanger.

Sad, really on several counts, to include the fact that Uncle Sam is so paranoid about servicemembers bringing home bolt action rifles and handguns.

Now, as to bayonets and other non-weapon memorabilia, there is an allowance for this stuff - but it also requires approval paperwork from the Command.

Also - I will add to tell your friend to distance that thought from his head about bringing home a firearm. No legal way to do it for most folks. And he should never consider smuggling it. He will get caught. Customs is so thorough they make everyone feel violated, frankly. And customs is on to the tricks and gimmicks. After a decade they got pretty good at finding hidden compartments, false box bottoms, the 'firearm in the printer', and mailing a rifle home in pieces. Everything is searched and Xrayed and a $300 firearm isn't worth prison or a dishonorable discharge.

 

[Gordon_Freeman]

Soldiers fighting wars should be allowed to bring home captured guns be they full auto or not. They deserve that much at least.

 

[Devonai]

To echo what Leadcouncil said, I've heard from guys in my unit who've returned from theater that customs is no joke. They also complain about the confiscation of booze and energy drinks with ephedrine.

 

[Tim the student]

Customs is definitely no joke anymore.

They also complain about the confiscation of booze and energy drinks with ephedrine.

Booze is definitely contrary to General Order #1, and I think ephedrine is too.

 

[essayons21]

Now, a Battalion or larger size unit can accept a gifted weapon on behalf of the US Government, but there is a lot of paperwork involved and sadly the weapon is permanently demilled. They weld a steel rod in the barrel, weld the crown shut, remove the firing pin, and welt the bolt shut. The are letters from the Command, gifting unit, a legal review by JAG, and then off to customs for authorization. A real PITA for a wall-hanger.

While this is technically true, it is widely ignored by units. If a CSM or First Sergeant wants to bring a weapon home in the weapons conex, it happens. A few units, who will not be named, brought back a few guns, including a M1919 sans feed tray cover.

I know of another unit, division level, that restored and brought home a Korea era US tank that had somehow made it into Saddam's inventory, and I know the gun wasn't demilled before leaving Iraq.

And don't forget the Glock 18 recovered by SF and presented to GWB for his presidential library. I know that it is now property of the US government, but I highly doubt it was brought out with the proper paperwork.

For every soldier caught smuggling a weapon, there is at least one more who make it. Smuggling it on your person or in your effects is a losing proposition, but there are pretty well known smuggling methods that are still effective. For example, a M203 tube makes a handy compartment for Cuban cigars, and they don't show up even when the weapon is x-ray'd.

And yes, all personal issue weapons are x-ray'd twice before leaving country. As a soldier, it really gives you pride to think of how much your government trusts you.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Easyon
kinda
I had the distinct privilege (and that is said MOST SARCASTICALLY)
of helping supply do customs
they had a printout of the MTOE from stateside (and yes that includes SN's)
And so did the guy from Division, and it took a while to show the paperwork for what got replaced, destroyed etc. So yeah, it gets kinda funny when you have a pair of NOD's that hanging up the entire connex, cause two battle buddies got theirs mixed up. Interestingly, the customs guy was fine, everything was on his list, it was the command/division who wanted to know where the missing one was...

Now that said, there are ways, I know of what walked, but, honestly it isn't worth it, especially since all the fun stuff is illegal anyways...

 

[HarleyFixer]

No, our government has decided that we are allowed to die for our country but are not allowed any captured weapons. When I came home you could not even bring home bayonets or knives.

 

[KimberUltra]

Its possible to get things back to the states. The mailing it in small pieces wrapped in socks is still working for some people I've heard about.

 

[Rembrandt]

There are limitations to what can be brought back....my son shipped back a couple Martini-Enfield rifles and bayonets he purchased at a Kabul gun shop on his first tour of Afghanistan. The restrictions on these was that they were produced prior to 1898. I also have the proper signed military paperwork that was needed to ship it back to the states.

Here's a pic.....not something you would call usable or captured. (Built 1873)

 

[DammitBoy]

I know plenty of guys in the Air National Guard who have 'brought' weapons back from Turkey and other hot spots in the middle east.

Not getting caught seems to be much easier if you have your own airplane.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

If I were a soldier, I would not respect any government or military that doesn't respect me. It's a mutal thing, unless one really DOES have a low opinion of one's self.

 

[ehanger]

Bringing home enemy weapons is perfectly okay, just ask George Bush.

http://artfularticulations.blogspot.com/2009/07/president-bush-saddam-hussein-and-glock.html

"Before Mr. Bush left the White House in January, he made arrangements for the gun to be shipped to a national archives warehouse just 18 miles north of his new home in Dallas. His foundation said a final decision had not been made on including the gun in the presidential library. But his associates and visitors to the White House said Mr. Bush had told them of his intention to display it there.

For nearly five years, Mr. Bush kept the mounted, glass-encased pistol in the Oval Office or a study, showing it with pride, especially to military officials, they said. He also let visitors in on a secret: when the pistol was recovered, it was unloaded. ..."

 

[SWAT1911]

That poor martini....

 

[Shadow 7D]

Bringing home enemy weapons is perfectly okay, just ask George Bush.

actually it wasn't his...
look up federal gifting regs

 

[ILikeLead]

The military...as led by today's politicians... don't even let soldiers carry their sidearms on base, so why in the world would they allow them to bring home enemy weapons???

I disagree with both policies. My grandfather brought home a Luger from WW2 with a holster and German soldier's name written in pencil inside!

 

[John E.]

So why is it exactly illegal to bring back a rifle that you can legally own in the states?

My reasoning might elicit a lot of non-High Road responses and aspersions on my manhood, but I don't care.

Here's the answer:

Because stealing stuff is wrong - even if you are a US soldier and the other guy was shooting at you.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

John E.: Ever been a soldier, or in a war? Maybe you'd understand. It's a whole nuther way of life, and thus a whole nuther way of looking at life. It gives you a certain "entitlement", totally different than the entitlement that people on welfare, etc, seem to have. You risk your life for your country, and they honor you with letting you bring home a few spoils of war; little curios and relics that you can reminisce over after you are lucky enough to come home. A little reward that doesn't cost the government anything to let you have, as a compensation for the number that the war will do on your mind and soul. It isn't much, but they sure as hell do not need to deny you that, if you WANT to bring home some souvnirs. After taking the enemy's life, taking a souvenir is really nothing, is it?

 

[S.W.G.]

Because stealing stuff is wrong - even if you are a US soldier and the other guy was shooting at you.

How could you possibly consider that stealing?

Soldiers have been bringing home war trophies since we were cavemen, there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[Tim the student]

I think a lot of it may be that we don't have a conventional battlefield now, and most Iraqi men have AKs and other guns. IMO, there are plenty of s-bag soldiers (to include NCOs and officers) that would feel "entitled" to seize a gun for the sole purpose of bringing it home.

FWIW, the weapon I brought home legally was a bayonet. While I would like an AK instead, the bayonet serves its purpose as a souvenir. It isn't like those are hard to get home.

This whole entitlement thing trips me out. Entitled to what? Being able to do what they signed up to do? You know, go to war?

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I'm still thinking the people who find it "illegal" or object to it are people who have not experienced war. I would give any standing to "objection" to those that have paid the dues.

 

[EddieNFL]

Because stealing stuff is wrong - even if you are a US soldier and the other guy was shooting at you.

To the victor go the spoils. Losing sucks.

Such attitudes would have sent most combat veterans of the greatest generation to prison.

 

[WardenWolf]

There are limitations to what can be brought back....my son shipped back a couple Martini-Enfield rifles and bayonets he purchased at a Kabul gun shop on his first tour of Afghanistan. The restrictions on these was that they were produced prior to 1898. I also have the proper signed military paperwork that was needed to ship it back to the states.

Here's a pic.....not something you would call usable or captured. (Built 1873)

Though for all you know, it may have been built last week at a Khyber Pass factory. You do realize they make copies of old guns like that, of varying quality, that can, at best, be indistinguishable from the real thing. They even put fake date stamps on them. I would highly suspect that any "old" rifle like that from Afghanistan is, in fact a fake. These rifles generally are not safe to fire, as the metallurgy on them is usually poor and they're often manufactured from materials such as melted down railroad rails and spikes, or any other scrap metal they can get their hands on.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Yeah, BUT, some of that steel is better quality than what the originals were made with...
now if you could only find some old nitro stock film to make the traditional bullets with....

You really do have to know the proper stamping to find what is real and what isn't, I think SOG or one of them had a batch of Khybers, I forget, but they were good enough to get past a professional buyer.

 

[Ignition Override]

Full-automatics must be highly illegal as "prizes".

About a year ago a coworker in either the ANG or AFRES told me that one or two guys in a C-17 or C-5 squadron (McGuire AFB, Dover or Charleston?) were in serious trouble.

All he said was that they sneaked an AK or two back from Iraq.
If this is true, and If they were charged, it might have been in a civilian court.

Young guys don't seem to realize that somebody always talks about an illegal activity, and somebody always notices unusual or suspicious behavior.