Im getting ready to place a midway order and came across several Hornady SP being on sale so this got the cheap little guy on my shoulder saying order several different weights and see if they shoot. I tried 55gr SP W/C a year or so ago and it wouldn't hold a group better than a softball at 100yards. they have 50gr, 55gr, 60gr. Have any of you gents got a SP 223 bullet to group like a V max? I don't want to drop money on something not going to work well.
can SP be accurate?
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I've never shot any of those bullets, so I can't speak from experience. I have/do shoot other caliber Hornady softpoints for hunting bullets, and can say the results aren't spectacular but fit my hunting needs well. I just like the way they perform.
If I wanted to bet on accurate softpoint bullets, I'd look at Sierras.
My advice would be to put that money into more Vmax's, which you seem to like. By the time you test the sale bullets, and if you find one you like, the sale will probably be over.
If I wanted to bet on accurate softpoint bullets, I'd look at Sierras.
My advice would be to put that money into more Vmax's, which you seem to like. By the time you test the sale bullets, and if you find one you like, the sale will probably be over.
I didnt get fantastic accuracy with them, something like you decribed, but I didnt work it up as far as I could have. Had a little better accuracy with their 55 grain FMJ. I also tried the FMJ in 62 grain, similar results. I was using H335 at the time for what thats worth.
I would like to use them with varget, which I have been using lately to see if there is more to gain. Thus far with H335 about a 2 inch group at 100 yards, this was with a Lucid technology red dot.
I have better luck with BTHP bullets from 52-69 grain. 53 grain Sierra Match King Hollow points grouping 5 in about 3/4s of an inch at 100 yards, with a scope, Nikon 4-12 by 40. I have some cheaper, Non match King Sierra 53 grain BTHP that if I hand pick them do about as well, but that package was run over by a truck and some damaged, dont get me going on that unfortunate tale again! I used Varget with those.
In short, find a deal on some 52-55 grain BTHP bullets (Hornady has these I'm sure) for a little more accuracy. I "seem" to have better luck with smooth bullets, w/o the cannelure mark. No crimp.
I would like to use them with varget, which I have been using lately to see if there is more to gain. Thus far with H335 about a 2 inch group at 100 yards, this was with a Lucid technology red dot.
I have better luck with BTHP bullets from 52-69 grain. 53 grain Sierra Match King Hollow points grouping 5 in about 3/4s of an inch at 100 yards, with a scope, Nikon 4-12 by 40. I have some cheaper, Non match King Sierra 53 grain BTHP that if I hand pick them do about as well, but that package was run over by a truck and some damaged, dont get me going on that unfortunate tale again! I used Varget with those.
In short, find a deal on some 52-55 grain BTHP bullets (Hornady has these I'm sure) for a little more accuracy. I "seem" to have better luck with smooth bullets, w/o the cannelure mark. No crimp.
Not BT, but these I have luck with, a few didnt seat right so be careful starting them. I use Lyman's VLA chamfer tool, makes them slide right in.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/14...22-caliber-224-diameter-53-grain-hollow-point
Whoops, that is a Match King. Mine were non Match King version. They were like
This, except 53 grain. Midway has the 60 grain version also.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/53...224-diameter-40-grain-hollow-point-box-of-100
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/342199/lyman-chamfer-tool-vld-very-low-drag
For best results, the SMK 52 gr. BTHP, or the 69 grain version are great.
Russellc
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/14...22-caliber-224-diameter-53-grain-hollow-point
Whoops, that is a Match King. Mine were non Match King version. They were like
This, except 53 grain. Midway has the 60 grain version also.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/53...224-diameter-40-grain-hollow-point-box-of-100
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/342199/lyman-chamfer-tool-vld-very-low-drag
For best results, the SMK 52 gr. BTHP, or the 69 grain version are great.
Russellc
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Sunray
Member
Accuracy isn't about the bullet point. It's about the load and the base of the bullet. Plus the rifle's trigger, bedding, rifling twist and all the rest of it.
Sierra makes 4 different 55 grain SP's. If they didn't shoot well with carefully worked up loads, they wouldn't make 'em.
And sometimes a softball sized group is all you need.
Sierra makes 4 different 55 grain SP's. If they didn't shoot well with carefully worked up loads, they wouldn't make 'em.
And sometimes a softball sized group is all you need.
I do like my v max but even at normal price the SP are about $3 cheaper and midway and cabelas are both sold out of v max. I have 100 v max left just for woodchucks so need something i can target shoot with.
Testing nosler HP now. $15-100 isn't too bad but my cabelas doesn't stock them so trying to find cheap, local bullets. I like holes i can stick my finger in.
I did a workup from min-24gr h335 and quit cause accuracy was so bad. id be willing to try another powder but the other posts above look like its a bust.
Tinybob
Member
Not sure about Hornady, but Speer 70gr semi-Spitzer five shot groups can be covered by a nickel at 100yds out of a 20" 1:9 barrel. I used Federal brass and Varget and WSR primers. Going to shoot some Hornady 60gr soft point with no cannelure today, with IMR4166. I'll get back to you on that.
someguy2800
Member
I used to buy the 55's in bulk from a reloading store in Minneapolis for plinking bullets. He had boxes of 6000 and would weigh out 100 of them on a scale for $10. They shot probably .75 moa in my savage, around mabey 1.5 in my handi rifle, and mabey 2" or so in my father in laws AR. I still load them for the AR. They aren't the best bullets in the world but good plinkers/varmint bullets for the money.
someguy2800
Member
Oh and there is nothing generically about a SP bullet to say they are inaccurate. Many of them are extremely accurate.
For me, the accuracy standard is whether I can get 9 out of 10 shots into the circular divot on the side of a plastic milk jug at 100 yards firing offhand. Depending on the brand of milk, that divot is between 2.5 and 3 inches in diameter, so that's about softball size so those are good enough for me.
Thanks for the tip about the sale.
Tinybob
Member
This is from my Handirifle at 100yds. Wind is about 10-15mph, temp is 88°. This was a test of 3 shot groups to get an idea what the new powder and bullet will do. More tuning is in order.
RP brass
WSR primers
IMR 4166
Hornady 60gr spire point/flat base
Seated to 2.250"
I crimped these, but will omit that on the next test.
Agreed.
At 20 cents a piece on sale, you should buy some of those Sierra 53 Grain Match Kings you linked to.
Yup, I have some, but like the 52 grain BT version better. Living in MO, I have to pay sales tax as Midway is also here in MO...not the end of the world, but does take a little of the good from the deal. On the other hand, I do love these bullets!
Russellc
That would be sooo handy, I understand how it would be expensive!I just checked into the speer and they are a little more $ than my v max so id be better sticking with them. Having a private 100yard range open 9am-930pm 7 days a week, 10min from home is putting a hurting on the wallet.
Russellc
RugerOldArmy
Member
Indeed they may work for you.
Note, however, what your intended use is. BT's might have some advantage at longer distances, but if you're shooting 100 yards primarily that may not make them worth it.
Many folks, myself included, think that flat-based bullets are easier to find an accurate load for, at short ranges. You still see a lot of flat-based bullets used in short range benchrest.
Between the Sierra 52 Gr BTHP and the 53 Gr HP with the flat base...I MUCH prefer the 53 Gr flat based. For these bullets, the difference in BC doesn't make up for how much better the flat based bullet groups in my guns.
A pet load of mine for .223 Rem is a 53 Gr Sierra over a near max load of RL-15. Those bullets shoot great for me over Benchmark too.
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Ive had better overall consistency with flat base bullets than boattails. This is over the caliber spectrum i shoot, so .22-31, skipping the .277
When i was still living on molokai i used to shoot the 55gr hornady sp from my 1-12 .223, when i switched to my mini i used the 55s, 60s, and 70grn speer for light medium game. Accuracy was good to excellent with all.
Ive got no tricks for loading them but i always used imr4895 because it was easy to get.
Shooting tiny groups has never really been my thing, but i consider 1.75-2" sub par, and 2" plus unacceptable. I recently gave away some "softball" bullets, but those were just too long for my 1-9.
When i was still living on molokai i used to shoot the 55gr hornady sp from my 1-12 .223, when i switched to my mini i used the 55s, 60s, and 70grn speer for light medium game. Accuracy was good to excellent with all.
Ive got no tricks for loading them but i always used imr4895 because it was easy to get.
Shooting tiny groups has never really been my thing, but i consider 1.75-2" sub par, and 2" plus unacceptable. I recently gave away some "softball" bullets, but those were just too long for my 1-9.
RecoilRob
Member
H-335 is a great 5.56/223 powder and is NOT causing a problem...it's the bullet or the loading. Sierra 55 SP's https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/1360/224-dia-55-gr-SPTout over 26 grains of 335 go under .4" for 10 shots out of my Bushmaster Varminter. Modern manuals list this load as over-max...but was used by the billions for decades without issues...so either the Lawyers have gotten to them or they've changed the formulation to a bit hotter. I'm still working on an old hoard of powder and haven't used any of the newer stuff so it would be best to stick to the manuals with modern powder or proceed at your own risk.
My rifles have always seemed to shoot better at the hotter end of the scale with H-335 and the Varminter is a 24" tube though the Ruger Target that preceeded it also just loved the Sierra's and H-335. If that combination won't shoot decently in a rifle...there is something wrong IMHO. Much like Gold Medal Target ammo...might not be the best you can get, but it'll shoot darn well in almost any rifle and if it won't...look elsewhere besides the ammo for the problem.
My rifles have always seemed to shoot better at the hotter end of the scale with H-335 and the Varminter is a 24" tube though the Ruger Target that preceeded it also just loved the Sierra's and H-335. If that combination won't shoot decently in a rifle...there is something wrong IMHO. Much like Gold Medal Target ammo...might not be the best you can get, but it'll shoot darn well in almost any rifle and if it won't...look elsewhere besides the ammo for the problem.
For me and my gun, that has not been the case. I did look else where, and for me things improved mightily with the combination I spoke of. YMMV of course.
I had much better luck with the Sierra bullets with varget, which incidentally Sierra has pretty good luck with, and with the 69 grain version, most accurate. For 55 grain, their accuracy load was with RE-7, but they did list H 335 as a prefered hunting load. Where they do find H335 shining is with their #1370 SMP bullet, 60 grain showing 25.2 grains H335 @ 2.250.
For the 52 and 53 grain Match Kings, where the 52 grain is HPBT, 53 grain being HP (with flat base) their accuracy load is with Viht N133.
I had the 69 grain match kings and varget doing well (again, what Sierra found most accurate) when I started in with the 53 grains. I tried H335 but wasnt having much luck getting below 1 inch. (100 yards) going with Varget shank them under 1 inch.
Gun, nothing special, AR15 I assembled as a "SPR". Anderson upper and lower stripped receivers. Front of upper receiver squared by hand lapping with Brownell lapper and a Dewalt drill. Barrel is a Ballistic Advantage (super inexpensive at Monmouth reloading) 18 inch SPR barrel, which they guarantee 1/2 moa. 1/7 twist. Spikes LPK, Geiselle 2 stage trigger, Rock River A2 Operator stock, tube, spring and buffer. Nikon 4-12 x40 scope on a Nikon mount.
Nothing exotic, just thrown together in my garage.
I do have a bunch of H335 on hand, and will try it more, but I did go through 8 lbs of it, so am familiar with it. Most of that fired through a different AR, about the same as the SPR I describe here, but with a 16 inch Ballistic Advantage barrel.
As an aside, I might add most benchrest shooter seem to prefer stick type powders. So as to not go to far off thread, I will start a new one over 50-69 grain bullets and prefered powders.
Russellc
I had much better luck with the Sierra bullets with varget, which incidentally Sierra has pretty good luck with, and with the 69 grain version, most accurate. For 55 grain, their accuracy load was with RE-7, but they did list H 335 as a prefered hunting load. Where they do find H335 shining is with their #1370 SMP bullet, 60 grain showing 25.2 grains H335 @ 2.250.
For the 52 and 53 grain Match Kings, where the 52 grain is HPBT, 53 grain being HP (with flat base) their accuracy load is with Viht N133.
I had the 69 grain match kings and varget doing well (again, what Sierra found most accurate) when I started in with the 53 grains. I tried H335 but wasnt having much luck getting below 1 inch. (100 yards) going with Varget shank them under 1 inch.
Gun, nothing special, AR15 I assembled as a "SPR". Anderson upper and lower stripped receivers. Front of upper receiver squared by hand lapping with Brownell lapper and a Dewalt drill. Barrel is a Ballistic Advantage (super inexpensive at Monmouth reloading) 18 inch SPR barrel, which they guarantee 1/2 moa. 1/7 twist. Spikes LPK, Geiselle 2 stage trigger, Rock River A2 Operator stock, tube, spring and buffer. Nikon 4-12 x40 scope on a Nikon mount.
Nothing exotic, just thrown together in my garage.
I do have a bunch of H335 on hand, and will try it more, but I did go through 8 lbs of it, so am familiar with it. Most of that fired through a different AR, about the same as the SPR I describe here, but with a 16 inch Ballistic Advantage barrel.
As an aside, I might add most benchrest shooter seem to prefer stick type powders. So as to not go to far off thread, I will start a new one over 50-69 grain bullets and prefered powders.
Russellc
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I've shot Dogtown brand bullets, which are lead tipped soft points from the looks of them that I got from Midway. I've had no accuracy qualms with them relative to Vmax's. Ground squirrel's didn't notice either, both Vmax and Dogtown made them splat equally well. My rifle was a ruger HB target bolt in .223, if that helps.
I like the Vmax's a touch more because the tips hold up better in transport. I usually just fill an ammo can or old peanut butter jar with them. The lead of softpoints can get noticeably deformed bouncing around in the can. Not bad mind you, but I've never seen a deformed Vmax tip from transport, I've seen several softpoints with less than perfect tips because I just pour them into a single container.
I like the Vmax's a touch more because the tips hold up better in transport. I usually just fill an ammo can or old peanut butter jar with them. The lead of softpoints can get noticeably deformed bouncing around in the can. Not bad mind you, but I've never seen a deformed Vmax tip from transport, I've seen several softpoints with less than perfect tips because I just pour them into a single container.
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