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Can you hold the slide closed while firing?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by KelBench400, Mar 6, 2003.

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  1. KelBench400

    KelBench400 Member

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    I was thinking about this the other day while reading a thread on suppressors. How much force would it take to hold the slide closed while firing? Could someone do it with their off-hand?

    I think I remember someone telling me they saw someone use their off-hand thumb on the back of the slide to hold the slide closed. At the time it sounded improbable....but now I'm wondering.

    Any insight would be beneficial,
    Kel

    Ps. Please don't ask me to try it. I like my fingers right where they are.
     
  2. dude

    dude Member

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    yes (but why?)
     
  3. Smoke

    Smoke Member

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    I wouldn't try it unless you are prepared to loose some skin or hunks of flesh. Possibility of burns also a concern.
     
  4. CZ-75

    CZ-75 member

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    I'd expect that the slide needs to be notched to receive the stop while in battery.

    Then you have a single shot gun with greater recoil that doesn't eject empties.

    Doesn't sound particularly useful, unless you're trying not to leave evidence behind.
     
  5. KelBench400

    KelBench400 Member

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    I was reading a thread on HKpro and someone asked if you could modify the Usp Tactical so that it would not cycle. The thought was that the action cycling created un-needed noise while using a suppressor.

    I was thinking about it, and simply wondered if one could manually hold the slide closed.

    I don't have a usp, I don't have a silencer, and I'm not going to try it.;) I was just wondering if it could be done like I had previously been told.

    Thanks,
    Kel
     
  6. drannor

    drannor Member

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    Doesn't the HK Mark 23 SOCOM pistol have a slide lock to achieve this? The idea being to avoid the sound of the slide cycling on a supressed pistol. I certainly wouldn't attempt it with my hand.

    Hk Mark 23
     
  7. Gerald McDonald

    Gerald McDonald Member

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    Couldnt you just shoot a hi point, chances are it wouldnt cycle anyway.
    :D
    Gerald
     
  8. BevrFevr

    BevrFevr Member

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    Why?

    It's bad enough when a gun doesn't work as intended but to intentionaly cause it to malfunction. :eek:

    Now if your worried about evidence, sure you don't want to leave a thumbprint on a fired case at the scene of a shooting but I think leaving the blood, fingernails, and some skin behind might be a bad idea too. And that may be the result of trying to hold the slide in place when shooting.

    Have you ever seen what happens when someone grasps an auto too high and it tears the meat out from between the thumb and forefinger? Ouch! :what:

    As far as you james bond types needing ultra silence. You just better hope your target doesn't scream thier azz off after you

    A) cover your sights up with your off hand :scrutiny:
    B) pull the trigger and hit the target if you're lucky (see A)
    C) Jam your gun
    D) try to stop the bleeding on your off hand
    E) clear your jam
    F) defend yourself from the very angry person you just shot
    G) notice how you wish the gun was coated in vaseline as it gets shoved up your... :what:

    GSC alert!

    -bevr
     
  9. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Member In Memoriam

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    I'm sure somebody tried that... accidentally -- and only once! :what:

    If shooting a MkII or Buckmark, maybe. With a bigger caliber, you'd better plan on a trip down hospital way.

    The slide operating does make quite a racket, but the purpose of a suppressor isn't to make operation of the gun silent. It's to make the noise tolerable.

    The gentle movie "thwip" from a suppressed automatic is just Hollywood.
     
  10. firestar

    firestar member

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    I have tried this on my Ruger MKII.:D It really is no big deal, it sort of viberates you hand but if you press hard, it doesn't hurt. I don't think I would try it on a larger cal like a 9mm or 45 though. I would do it if I had some leather gloves and someone gave me $50.:D
     
  11. Tom B

    Tom B Member

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    During a Rangemasters course several years ago one drill was to hold the slide while firing one round. I forget the purpose (something about close quarters firing). We did it by holding the top of the slide and not with thumb on rear. Those with 9mms (I was using a Glock 17) didn't even use gloves and those with 40 and 45 did. No problem and no injuries to anyone. Not as bad on the hand as I had feared.
     
  12. 10-Ring

    10-Ring Member

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    That's diff't :what: If your target is dead, did you pistol make a sound?
     
  13. chevrofreak

    chevrofreak Member

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    on a locked breech firearm, if the slide and barrel are not allowed to travel the initial distance needed for them to unlock from each other, by pressing on the rear of the slide, the firearm will not cycle, and you likely will not be injured
     
  14. BevrFevr

    BevrFevr Member

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    Just what we need...

    A bunch of GSC's running around trying to hold thier slides while firing.

    Let me be the first to say that this is not a practice I endorse as SAFE gun handling!

    Sure it might be possible... but let's just say that is not the way most semi autos are designed to function.

    If you try this and you get hurt blame the other guys cuz I told you it ain't a good Idea! In fact if you do it and get hurt you should consider donating your air, food and water to the rest of us that can put it to better use.

    To put it another way... Just because you can do something stupid and survive doesn't mean you should or that you should expect to survive if you do it again.

    Man I hope no punk kid loses a finger because they read this forum. :banghead:

    -bevr
     
  15. jthuang

    jthuang Member

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    The answer is yes.

    At Insights Training Center's Close Quarters Confrontations class, attention is given to contact-distance shooting and handgun retention. There may be times when the goblin you're tusslin' with has got his paws on your gun, resulting in your weapon being in an out-of-battery state.

    You can use your free hand to push the slide into battery and fire a round into your assailant. You only get one shot, mind you, because the slide won't cycle.

    On a Glock, take the palm of your free hand and push on the back of the slide to get the gun back into battery. Unless you have joint problems or other medical infirmities, firing the gun with your off hand on the back of the slide will not injure you.

    This was demonstrated during the class and each student gave it a go. It seems like it will hurt like blazes but it doesn't.

    Never tried it with a gun that features an exposed hammer, though.

    Justin
     
  16. Handy

    Handy Guest

    The first pistol the SEAL teams used as a silenced weapon was a S&W 9mm auto with an added slide lock to hold it closed (hush puppy). The suppresor was so big that the weapon probably wouldn't have cycled had it not been locked closed.

    As to manually doing it, the gun will have the same recoil as a revolver of the same weight would. If shooting a hammerless gun, like a Glock or Kahr, I would put the back end of the slide in my palm and grasp the trigger at an angle, like the cocking hold on a SAA. It will kick more than a Glock normally would, but wouldn't hurt you. A little silly, perhaps.

    Browning locked autos require a specialized suppresor to function. A slide lock is a cheaper option that makes the pistol quieter, but still allows semiauto fire when you don't use it.
     
  17. treeprof

    treeprof Member

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    Have done it w/overhand hold on the slide in a course once; no big deal. Have seen it done on a both Glock 19 and 23 w/thumb against slide. W/a firm hold, again no big deal. Not something that'd be useful on a regular basis, tho.
     
  18. gbelleh

    gbelleh Member

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    I had a friend who claimed to have shot a Glock 22 during a police training class one handed with his shooting hand thumb against the back of the slide. I never knew if he was telling the truth or not.
     
  19. hksw

    hksw Member

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    "Doesn't the HK Mark 23 SOCOM pistol have a slide lock to achieve this?"

    It was part of the original design but that feature was dropped. Not sure why.
     
  20. Johnny Guest

    Johnny Guest Moderator Emeritus

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    Works with a Glock 19

    Don't recall why it became an issue, but I saw it demonstrated once. Couldn't believe it, so I got MY G19 from the car and tried it. Off hand thumb against back of the slide, firmly but no death grip. No pain, no injury. Did it three or four times, and decided it didn't prove anything. I've never been tempted to try it with any other pistol.

    Pistols with external hammers - - -Now, THOSE might cause some pain, if you didn't clear the hammer path.:D

    Best,
    Johnny
     
  21. akanotken

    akanotken Member

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    Yup, it's no big deal. People end up with cuts when the slide pinches or slices through, but you can hold the slide forward with your thumb. (I was surprised how easy it was when I learned about it too).

    Think about it this way, a little dirt in a 1911 keeps the slide from cycling lots of times, obstructing with your thumb is a whole lot more effective.

    I've often wondered about whoever discovered it first :) Would have liked to see the look on his/her face.
     
  22. KelBench400

    KelBench400 Member

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    This was purely a theoretical question. No one 'endorsed' doing it. We all know that a semi-auto isn't designed to be used in this manner. But if we can't ask questions on the forum to verify things we've been told, how are we ever to learn?

    I simply read a thread where someone asked if a gun could be modified to hold the slide closed. This made me remember something that I had heard about holding the slide closed with one's off hand. I just wanted to know if this was BS or reality.

    I'm not going to try it. I don't want to try it. But thank you very much to those who verified that it can be done will no ill consequences.

    -Kel
     
  23. hksw

    hksw Member

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    I take that back. I think it was in the middle of the development of the Mk 23 that the slide lock was incorporated and then dropped. Not from the beginning.
     
  24. BevrFevr

    BevrFevr Member

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    No Offence ment KelBench

    I'm all for education and asking questions.

    I just wanted to make sure there was at least one stern warning against doing this.

    Imagine this question "Can you fire a weapon with an obstructed barrel?"

    Well, I'll bet you a dollar that some will reply with the simple answer of "Yes". Because it's true you can. I've seen a picture of a .44 mag barrel with like 5 slugs lodged in it. The shooter didn't even know it happened. But if you ask me I'll Say Hell No! Don't do it.

    Well there were a few "Yes" responses to your question and noone was saying that it is generally considered a bad idea. I may have been a little too animated but I figured it was better that sitting idly by while unsafe gun handle methods were being endorsed.

    While the practice may be just fine with a GLOCK try a .50 desert eagle and let me know your results or even a pocket pistol where your hand may get in front of a barrel.

    -bevr
     
  25. chevrofreak

    chevrofreak Member

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    if anyone even tries it with a desert eagle they deserve the injuries they will get

    desert eagles use an entirely different recoil system (gas blowback) which would be nearly immpossible to hold foreward.
     
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