Can you spot the new family member? (the revolver family)

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by Ugly Sauce, Jul 28, 2022.

  1. Captain*kirk

    Captain*kirk Member

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    I'm not disappointed yet.

    49628609697_9990afcb2b_4k.jpg
     
  2. Jackrabbit1957

    Jackrabbit1957 Member

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    What seems to be the problems you're running into on the Starr?
     
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  3. grter

    grter Member

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    Again correct me if I am wrong but I think the singer action Star Revolvers are good to go. It's the double action version that is trouble.

    Both the modern and original double actions were known to be finicky, and prone to malfunctions as well as generally awkward to operate in single action with a heavy unpleasant trigger pull in double action. It was a weird set up with the trigger acting to pull the hammer back and rotate the cylinder before pressing into a separate sear located in the back of the trigger guard which released the hammer.

    The cylinder will not rotate and lock into place unless the trigger is pulled so using the double action Starr in single action mode meant pulling the trigger just enough to cock the hammer and rotate the cylinder Then removing your finger from the trigger and manually pressing the sear at the back of the trigger guard with your finger

    I am sure there are other tricks to manipulate it to fire single action but it sure is not ideal.

    It was not liked hence the introduction of the single action version which was better liked.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2022
  4. Dave Markowitz

    Dave Markowitz Member

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    grter clarified it.

    The single actions work more or less. The DA have issues. I don't recall the specifics because it's been awhile since they've been available.
     
  5. grter

    grter Member

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    I like the Rogers and Spencer but be aware to disassemble it requires an uncommon European size slotted gun screwdriver with a very thin tip. This size is not included in the standard brownells kit. They have it in another brownells kit that took weeks for them to send because it had to be back ordered.

    Oh yes the screws are butter soft and easy to bugger following the tradition of Italian made cap and ball revolver replicas. You need the right screw bits/driver especially on this one.

    Disassembly and reassembly is a pain. Not impossible after you learn a few tricks but still a pain.

    See post number 65 in this thread (Rogers and Spencer finally) for all the details.

    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/rogers-and-spencer-finally.864117/page-3

    The thin bit set seems to be available these days. That is nice.

    If you get just the bits you need individually it's less expensive. I like having a full kit just in case.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2022
  6. Jackrabbit1957

    Jackrabbit1957 Member

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    Sounds like a good thing that the DA are not available!
     
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  7. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    I really like the R&S and got a Howell conversion cylinder for mine. Needs a taller front sight.

    Rogers%20and%20Spencer%2001b.jpg

    001b_2.jpg
     
  8. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    I hear you, and you are not wrong. Sometimes I do carry a modern gun, Grand-Pappy's Luger, or the Webley, the El Patron, The "Victory" model S&W, something like that. But as time flies by I'm going more and more cap-N-ball.

    My reasoning is this, which won't stand up to reasoning! I like the sense of danger a little bit, probably why I've been riding motorcycles all my life. Motorcycles are not safe. I'm a bit of an adrenalin junkie...not as much as when I was young and dumb, but it's still there. But, I've become quite confident in the CNB (cap-N-ball!) revolvers. I believe they can be 100% reliable. And the "cool factor". I love cool-factor. But, I trust each and everyone of my Revolvers. And one thing I know about the R&S revolvers, from all my youtube binge watching and binge research, they are incredibly reliable guns.

    The other thing is, and I've said this before, and it sounds totally corny and it is, is that to die in my mountains is not a bad thing. I don't want to, but better than the side of the highway, or the old folks home, in my mind.

    The other thing is that 99% of the time I'm packing a powerful long gun. So the side arm is there as a back up, not really the primary arm for wolf repellent. Or, to use first, and keep the long-gun ready in reserve. Or visa-versa. If I take a .22LR rifle, or my spear, or bow, then I've got the Super Blackhawk on me hip. So I'm only 50% crazy. Although one trip last summer I took the bow and my Plains Pistol, but I've been re-thinking that combination, and that's kind of pushing it so I probably won't do that again.

    Conversion cylinders, I just don't like them. I'd take the EL Patron before I'd use a conversion cylinder. No offense, I know most of you guys love them, but they have no appeal to me. I just don't "get it" on the conversion thing. To me, a conversion cylinder is kind of like a bat. A cap-N-ball is then neither a mouse, or a bird. No offense! (to anyone)

    Ha ha how was that for a lot of hot air!!!!?!!
     
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  9. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    Good to know, but again, even though the Starr is a very cool gun, it's never really caught my imagination or been on my wish list. The R&S has always been: "DANG! I wish I had one of them-thar things!!!" I still would not have one any time (or year) soon, had not a good Gent made a trade with me.
     
  10. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    Wow, very nice, I like the wood on the grips, and nice Slim-Jim. ("Big-Jim"?) I need a holster for mine of course, but I'll go with a Dell. They wet-form to the gun so nice, got one for the Little Brat (1862PP) and it looks so cool with a perfect outline of the gun on the outside. Also keeps it totally snug when in the hoslter.

    Yep, they certainly shoot high, like eight miles high. !!! That can be fixed of course, but I'm going to take my time on that, and do a really nice job.
     
  11. Captain*kirk

    Captain*kirk Member

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    The Pietta SA Starr is a great gun but suffers from one minor flaw...the cylinder notches are too thin for the bolt and when in battery, the bolt does not bottom out but instead gives the cylinder "a wedgie" (to borrow a line from Pettifogger) which tends to peen over the edges. This is unlike the original Starrs that had ample bolt notches...

    Pietta Starr SA

    25346224357_e99d7279bd_3k.jpg

    Original Starr SA

    50570510042_866177bf72_c.jpg
     
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  12. whughett

    whughett Member

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    Don’t follow your reasoning. If the cylinder can handle the load, where’s the pressure on the frame, recoil against the recoil shield, ?, pressure transfer into barrel before bullet leaves ? According to one well know poster here the Colts open tops are actually stronger than the closed frames.
    The R&S are probably better built than the Remingtons and Ruger Old Armies, well they are in a class by them selves.
    Not disagreeing just don’t follow the reasoning.
    Conversion cylinder manufacturers caution against and I’m not advocating 44Magnum pressure smokeless loads but 45C loads such as a compressed 40 grain 3F under a 255 grain bullet load.
     
  13. hawg

    hawg Member

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    Recoil against the recoil shield. It will handle 40 grains of 3F but when you said load it hot I thought you meant smokeless. The Ruger Old Army is much better built and much stronger than any Italian repro. It's basically the same frame as the Blackhawk.
     
  14. CraigC
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    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    Firing puts strain on a lot more than just the cylinder. It stresses the bolt, the bolt window in the frame, the hand, ratchet and backthrust basically tries to stretch the gun apart.

    That said, I think these guns are stronger than people think. The Kirst .45ACP 1860 conversion has brought a lot of that into question.
     
  15. Jackrabbit1957

    Jackrabbit1957 Member

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    If it's peening the cylinder notches as stated the bolt is not fitted properly. This sounds like Pietta dropped the ball during the manufacturing process. Interesting thing about Pietta is that I've had 2 older production ones come through the shop with the slot in the arbor being too narrow and not allowing the arbor and barrel lug to seat. The wedge would go through about halfway and stop leaving the barrel loose on the frame. Not a hard fix, just an odd thing to deal with.
     
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  16. whughett

    whughett Member

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    OP As usual and ain’t it fun, the thread has gone south per usual. Enjoy your R&S, preference for me are the Colt open tops for various reasons but the RS’s get their share of range time too. Sadly at my age, paper at 15 to 25 yards but trigger time none the less. Heck I’ve even gotten in the habit of enjoying the cleaning g time.

    One work of caution, and ROA shooters will agree, pay attention to the base pins cross bolt. If it’s in the wrong position downward motion of the loading
    lever will pull the base pin and it will bend at the notch. Usually not a disaster as it can be straightened.
     
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  17. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    I don't find it a bad thing when a thread runs it course, and goes South. Sometimes it just gets more interesting.!!!

    Yes, I'm very aware of the cross-bolt "thing". If I had to find a weak point in the R&S, that would be it. The first thing I did was cut a tiny notch, with a fine tiny file, in the face of the screw that corresponds with the notch, so that at a glance I can assure it's in the right position. I've even come across bad advice, where someone states that you turn the screw 1/4 turn, or 90 degrees. !!! That would lead to disaster! Or, semi-disaster.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2022
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  18. LaneP

    LaneP Member

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    Some of those repro frames are pretty soft. In the early 90's I inadvertently cast a batch of .454 RB's using lead that had tin added to it from a previous session of casting bullets intended for smokeless reloading. I took them with my Armi San Paolo (Lyman) NMA to the range with some Pyrodex P. After one cylinder I reloaded it and then it started going out of time, with the hammer falling out of line with the chamber. I stopped shooting and looked the pistol over carefully. The b/c gap had grown to at least 1/8". Basically I had ruined the frame by stretching it forward that much. After that I am ultra careful to only use pure, dead soft lead in those old gals.
     
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  19. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    Not to mention the force that might be required to force them into the chamber.

    I recently cast up a bunch of balls, and added some sheet lead, which I assumed was pure lead because it was sheet...nope it wasn't. What tipped me off what when I went to load the 1860/ram a ball in, and could tell right away something was wrong.

    However, perfect for the tumbler when I start milling charcoal and the other stuff to make black powder. The lead came out nice for the modern bullets/cartridges though, it cast really nice.
     
  20. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    It's a beauty for sure. What, did you name it "Mr. Daniels"? Or just plain "Jack"?
     
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  21. whughett

    whughett Member

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    I did the same on both of mine. The screw will rotate in recoil ever so slightly and so I’ve found after a few cylinders it will move out of position. if you have a way of tightening the two screws more so that it takes more effort to turn larger one let me know.
     
  22. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    Mine seems to stay put, or at least for one cylinder at a time. I shot a cylinder full (well five) at the end of the first day I had it, and cleaned it. Then the next day I can't resist when it finally cools off. Then today I wanted to see if it would shoot through a block of wood with a heavy load, so I did. Cleaning it now. Total of 15 shots so far, trying different powder each time. I suppose if one could find a brass washer small enough, and thin enough that would do it.
     
  23. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Ha!!!! Well, I like um enough for both of us !!!!
    My reason is (and I'm sure I'm not alone) that they're historically correct and it would be a natural progression into the cartridge world. With a foot in both worlds, I can shoot my favorite type revolvers and shoot modern ammo . . . and not have to decide one or the other. So we (conversion nuts) make the world go round!! Personally, I think they make the most attractive firearms on the planet!!.. Mike



    20220723_115457.jpg
    The belt pistols.

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    The horse pistols . . .
    What's not to like?!! Lol
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2022
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  24. Captain*kirk

    Captain*kirk Member

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    No sir. "Mr. Jameson". That was the inspiration for the photo...
    Sorry if I hijacked your R&S thread...they are truly awesome firearms and I think would have been extremely popular had they been issued during the ACW...as it happened, the lot of them (military issue) was bought up by Bannerman's and sat out the end of the century in his warehouse until around 1909, IIRC.
     
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  25. Gaucho Gringo

    Gaucho Gringo Member

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    I have one with the cartridge conversion also. I can't believe the bank vault lockup on the gun with both cylinders. Better than anything else I own including my S&W. Mine has the frame turning plum color as a lot of them do. Makes them distinctive.
     
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