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Canada's Crime Rate 50% Higher than U.S.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by ALS, Jan 24, 2006.

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  1. ALS

    ALS Member

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    I posted this little diddy on a Liberal automobile site and the Liberals went nuts. Especially the ones living in Canada.

    Tuesday, Jan. 24, 2006 2:59 p.m. EST
    Canada's Crime Rate 50 % Higher than U.S.

    Press reports that Canada is a Shangri-la – an America with free health care and less crime – may be short sighted.

    In fact, statistics show that the violent crime rate there is double that of the United States.

    It seems Canada is looking for a scapegoat, too: Outgoing Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin is blaming the United States for his country’s violent crime wave. He says his southern neighbor is eagerly bringing guns over the border.

    According to the Second Amendment Foundation’s Alan Gottlieb, writing in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Martin is wrong for blaming Canada’s rise in violent crime on criminals smuggling guns from the United States.

    Gottlieb says the blame instead belongs on Canadian crooks getting guns from wherever they can.
    "Blaming the United States for Canadian crime is an argument that does not pass the smell test,” Gottlieb wrote. "Canada's experience has simply demonstrated that no matter what kind of gun control law a government passes, that law is doomed to failure because instead of keeping guns out of the wrong hands, the law disarms the wrong people. Canada's gun control scheme has not just failed - it has failed disastrously. Clear evidence of that can be found in a comparison of the crime rates for Canada and America.”

    Gottlieb cites an article by Canada's National Post columnist David Frum where he revealed that "Canada's overall crime rate is now 50 percent higher than the crime rate in the United States.” Moreover, "Since the early 1990s, crime rates have dropped in 48 of the 50 states and 80 percent of American cities. Over that same period, crime rates have risen in six of the 10 Canadian provinces and in seven of Canada’s 10 biggest cities.”

    He also cites the most recent complete data available from both countries that shows that in 2003, the violent crime rate in the United States was 475 per 100,000 people; while up north, there were 963 violent crimes per 100,000 people. The figure for sexual assault in Canada per 100,000 people was more than double that of the United States: 74 as opposed to 32.1; and the assault rate in Canada was also more than twice that of the states: 746 to America's 295 for the people.

    Moreover, he cites research that showed the figure for sexual assault in Canada per 100,000 people was more than double that of the United States: 74 as opposed to 32.1; and the assault rate in Canada was more than twice that of the United States: 746 to America’s 295. Also, in 2005, Toronto had 78 murders; that’s a 28 percent increase in homicides since 1995.

    "The situation hasn't improved for Canada; it has here,” he wrote.
    "Moreover, this shift in crime rates between the two countries has occurred while dozens of U.S. states have adopted ‘right-to-carry’ and ‘shall-issue’ handgun laws. During the same period, Canada’s gun laws have gotten more restrictive, with the national gun registry being implemented,” he added.

    "Since declaring war on guns under former Prime Minister Jean Chretien, Canada's Liberals have presided over the sharpest rise in violent crime in the nation’s history.”

    Gottlieb wrote that "Frum put it best when he claimed, ‘Gun registration and gun bans ... do not work,’ adding later: ‘It is not guns from across the border that threaten Canadians. It is the weak and cynical policies of home-grown politicians, and especially the Chretien/Martin Liberals.’”

    Martin and the Liberals are not the solution to violent crime in Canada, Gottlieb wrote. "They're the problem.”

    Gottlieb concluded that "the disparity in crime rates says it all about how well gun registration works to stop crime, as opposed to actually carrying guns to deter criminals, and fighting back if necessary.”
     
  2. ALS

    ALS Member

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    After this post Conservatives were referred to as stupid

    The Anti-gun Male
    By Julia Gorin


    LET'S be honest. He's scared of the thing. That's understandable -- so am I. But as a girl I have the luxury of being able to admit it. I don't have to masquerade squeamishness as grand principle-in the interest of mankind, no less.

    A man does. He has to say things like "One Taniqua Hall is one too many," as a New York radio talk show host did in referring to the 9-year old New York girl who was accidentally shot last year by her 12-year old cousin playing with his uncle's gun. But the truth is he desperately needs Taniqua Hall, just like he needs as many Columbines and Santees as can be mustered, until they spell an end to the Second Amendment. And not for the benefit of the masses, but for the benefit of his self-esteem.

    He often accuses men with guns of "compensating for something." The truth is quite the reverse. After all, how is he supposed to feel knowing there are men out there who aren't intimidated by the big bad inanimate villain? How is he to feel in the face of adolescent boys who have used the family gun effectively in defending the family from an armed intruder? So if he can't touch a gun, he doesn't want other men to be able to either. And to achieve his ends, he'll use the only weapon he knows how to manipulate: the law.

    Of course, sexual and psychological insecurities don't account for ALL men against guns. Certainly there must be some whose motives are pure, who perhaps do care so much as to tirelessly look for policy solutions to teenage void and aggressiveness, and to parent and teacher negligence. But for a potentially large underlying contributor, psycho-sexual inadequacy has gone unexplored and unacknowledged. It's one thing to not be comfortable with a firearm and therefore opt to not keep or bear one. But it's another to impose the same handicap onto others.

    People are suspicious of what they do not know -- and not only does this man not know how to use a gun, he doesn't know the men who do, or the number of people who have successfully used one to defend themselves from injury or death. But he is better left in the dark; his life is hard enough knowing there are men out there who don't sit cross-legged. That they're able to handle a firearm instead of being handled by it would be too much to bear.

    Such a man is also best kept huddled in urban centers, where he feels safer than he might if thrown out on his own into a rural setting, in an isolated house on a quiet street where he would feel naked and helpless. Lacking the confidence that would permit him to be sequestered in sparseness, and lacking a gun, he finds comfort in the cloister of crowds.

    The very ownership of a gun for defense of home and family implies some assertiveness and a certain self-reliance. But if our man kept a gun in the house, and an intruder broke in and started attacking his wife in front of him, he wouldn't be able to later say, "He had a knife -- there was nothing I could do!" Passively watching in horror while already trying to make peace with the violent act, scheduling a therapy session and forgiving the perpetrator before the attack is even finished wouldn't be the option it otherwise is.

    No. Better to emasculate all men. Because let's face it: He's a lover, not a fighter. And he doesn't want to get shot in case he has an affair with your wife.

    Of course, it wouldn't be completely honest not to admit that owning a firearm carries with it some risk to unintended targets. That's the trade off with a gun: The right to defend ones life and way of life isn't without peril to oneself. And the last thing this man wants to do is risk his life -- if even to save it. For he is guided by a dread fear for his life, and has more confidence in almost anyone else's ability to protect him than his own, preferring to place himself at the mercy of the villain or in the sporadically competent hands of authorities (his line of defense consisting of locks, alarm systems, reasoning with the attacker, calling the police or, should fighting back occur to him, thrashing a heavy vase).

    In short, he is a man begging for subjugation. He longs for its promise of equality in helplessness. Because only when that strange, independent alpha breed of male is helpless along with him will he feel adequate. Indeed, his freedom lies in this other man's containment.
     
  3. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Canada's Liberals have spoken—for the Conservative party.
     
  4. GoRon

    GoRon Member

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    Do you have a link for the original article?
     
  5. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    How about links to both articles?
     
  6. secamp32

    secamp32 Member

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  7. ALS

    ALS Member

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  8. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    Thank you.
     
  9. razcob

    razcob Member

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    That's interesting. I was listening to a canadian radio station on live-radio and kept hearing the announcer describe the U.S. as 'our violent neighbors to the south".
     
  10. ingram

    ingram Member

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    I would love to see some of the liberals replies if you care to post them.

    I remember I registered for the Democratic Underground board a couple months ago, and I was banned in 2 days. Apparently common sense and factual reasoning are a no-no there. Is that the site by chance?

    I was repeatedly told, "We come here to get away from a**hole republicans."

    Which is funny because I'm not even a Republican. I am a Gargamek from planet Zargon, intergalactic maker of fine tin foil hattery, and I support the Reptilian party.

    (fixed censor bypass)
     
  11. SkunkApe

    SkunkApe Member

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    "Some mistakenly compare government data directly between the two countries (i.e. 958 per 100,000 for Canada vs 523 per 100,000 for the United States) and conclude that Canada is more violent. This comparison is inaccurate because Canada collects the incidence of reported violent crimes, while the United States collects violent crimes committed. The U.N. provides data with a similar measure for both countries."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Canada
     
  12. pcf

    pcf Member

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    Wikipedia is good for one thing, research on salt shakers.

    If UN statistics are so accurate and great, where are they?

    If a violent crime is not reported in Canada, did it occur? If the police find a murder victim in an ally, and no one reports it as a crime, does it count against their statistics? Does this imply that the police in Canada are too lazy or incompetent to investigate reported crimes of violence, therefor they take reports at face value.

    If Canada tracks reported incidences of violent crime why not remove that field from the statistics and then compare actual incidences of violent crime, rather than defer to non-existent UN figures.
     
  13. SkunkApe

    SkunkApe Member

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  14. cliffstanc

    cliffstanc Member

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    The UCR is incident-based. Whatever reason there might be for the disparity in crime rates, that isn't it.

    Also, there's no cite for those numbers in the article - bad wiki! Bad! No biscuit!
     
  15. pcf

    pcf Member

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    Read the UN "study":
    1. The "study" is a compilation of participant provided data. Ultimately the survey is a reflection of the honesty of the participants, not a reflection of crime rates.

    2. Rapes per 100,000, 2001:
    -Canada: 77.36
    -United States: 31.85
    (Some of my favorites)
    -Albania: 1.63
    -Mexico: 13.05

    3. Intentional completed homicides in Canada increase 2.5 times between 2001 and 2002 (207 to 523), this is the only place that I've read about an increase on this scale. Is murder sky rocketing in Canada or were 2001 numbers under-reported?

    It's a bogus study, it's not a statistical survey, it does not take into account the honesty of the participants, the competence of the participants or make any attempt to normalize differences between countries' laws. The "study" allows discretionary reporting of crime, "fraud and bribery" were conveniently missing from the Mexican numbers. Under-reporting and discretionary classification of crime are not taken into account.

    In effect, Sudan could honestly answer that no rapes have occured in the Sudan in the past year, by the logic that under their law, non-consenual forced sex of ethnic minorities does not constitute rape. A crime survey would involve an independent source randomly surveying citizens of participating countries.

    Skunkape, when it comes to statistics it always easier to have you opponent try to prove his are correct, than disprove your opponent with your own statistics.

    One of the great things about statistics is that they can be molded into anything they need to be. Who's right, who's wrong, who cares? I got statistics that work both ways.
     
  16. RaggedClaws

    RaggedClaws Member

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    You misread the data...

    Total rate of all crimes for US (2002): 4,118.76
    Total rate of all crimes for Canada (2002): 8,025.37
     
  17. ALS

    ALS Member

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    Well guys it has been 18 hours since I posted those numbers. Funny not one of them has disputed the report. They seem to be getting a little nicer. It's not nice to tease the animals too much so I held back and let them alone.
    6 pm is coming and I'll post again asking where Their Numbers refuting the original post. Face it if they can't find the numbers after 24 hours they have bunk. It is a Volvo board in the opinions section. The guys that hang on the help side are a lot more civil and pretty good all around people.
    The guys in the opinions are mostly radical leftists with a handful of moderates and conservatives.

    http://brickboard.com/OPINIONS/
     
  18. PCGS65

    PCGS65 Member

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    It's Bushs fault, I knew it too. Is he a democrat? lol ;)
     
  19. carlrodd

    carlrodd Member

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    you too?????!!!!! welcome brother!
     
  20. carlrodd

    carlrodd Member

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    i just tried to join democratic undergound. they make you wait 24 hours??? what's all that about?
     
  21. ALS

    ALS Member

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    They are doing a background check to see if you qualify to blessed with their presence.
     
  22. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    As a Canadian I can tell you that is typical...

    For years they tried to sweep the Port Coquitlam pig farm issue under the carpet in Vancouver BC, didn't want to hurt there "best city" rating with the UN :rolleyes:

    Police speculate 50 some odd women went through the chipper shredder and were fed to the hogs...

    http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/robert_pickton/6.html

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/pickton/


    They like to keep things really quiet about stuff like that in Canada. Using the USA as a screen is what they do best. ;)
     
  23. Firethorn

    Firethorn Member

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    Are you sure about that? Out of that report I got 8025.37 for all reported crimes for Canada.(Crimes recorded in criminal (police) statistics, by type of crime including attempts to commit crimes). The rate was only 4,118.76 for the USA. The 168.35, which I found after some searching, is for Albania. And only the second year of statistics for them as well.
    Canada/United States
    All Reported Crimes: 8025.37/4118.76
    Intentional Murder: 1.67/5.62(Ow)
    Attempted Murder: 2.17/NL(wth?)
    Int Murder w/Gun: .46/3.25
    Major Assault: 8.56/310.14
    All Assault: 750.18/803.26(1999 number for USA, 2002 not available)
    Rape: 77.64/32.99
    Robbery: 85.13/145.87
    Burglury: 876.52/746.22
    Kidnapping: 9.35/NL

    Makes me almost wonder if "Major Assault" is easier to get into in the United States.
     
  24. SkunkApe

    SkunkApe Member

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    You are correct. I thought I was reading United states figures, but was in fact reading Albanian figures, apparently due to some wild clicking, and because my darn work computer takes forever to download the .pdf files.

    Sorry.
     
  25. Lucky

    Lucky Member

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    Shh, we live in paradise, non-violent paradise I say! People don't talk about it, but we all know you don't go in dark places anywhere, really.

    Lol, actually my city is slightly less than a million people, but we have a couple shootings and many more stabbings every weekend. Right now the bigest story is they're trying to find the other pieces of a body to match the arm they found in a dumpster, anaysing why most criminals don't bother to cut up bodies, etc. It's hard to find a week where people aren't shot, and impossible to find one where they aren't stabbed.

    Those dead prostitutes in Vancouver are disturbing, but what's worse is that it's so common, there's the same sort of thing happening in a city north of me called Edmonton.
     
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