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Can't figure out!!

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by USMCGRUNT_0341, Mar 5, 2013.

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  1. USMCGRUNT_0341

    USMCGRUNT_0341 Member

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    First off, hello all. I have trolled these forums for tons of information for quite some time. This time I need to see if anyone has encountered the same problem.

    I am loading .30-06 in a Hornady AP press with the RCBS dies. I am full length sizing my R-P headstamp cases. My problem is that some of my casings are seating in the rifle perfect, some are tight, and some just straight up become stuck. I then get the ones that will work in my rifle, but try to test them in a different rifle and it is extremely tight or again become stuck. I have calipered every single area on the case for perfect measurements. I have tried dummy rounds, just casings, and fully loaded rounds.

    I do not know if it the full length sizing die is going bad (it is fairly old)? Something to do with the progressive loading of a rifle case (I know single stage is better for rifles)? I even set the sizer to touch the plate and another quarter of a turn down to try and get the maximum out of the sizing.

    Has anyone ever encountered this type of problem and have any suggestions for me? Thanks everyone!

    :cuss::banghead:
     
  2. c.latrans

    c.latrans Member

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    Could be lots of things....more info? Are you mixing case lots? It can make a difference, even with like head stamps. What rifle are you shooting them in, etc. Are you lubing the inside of your case necks? If the are coming out of the die very hard, you may actually be stretching the case length with the expanding button. Give us a little more info. if you can.
     
  3. A-FIXER

    A-FIXER Member

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    pictures would help but it could be your not going down far enough are you lubing the cases? Have you trimmed the brass it could be too long. What type of die are you using? Is there a bulged shoulder on you brass? await your response.
     
  4. USMCGRUNT_0341

    USMCGRUNT_0341 Member

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    Thanks C. latrans. I am mixing case lots. I recently acquired these cases so I do not know the full history on them. If I had to guess, I'd say once or twice fired. My rifle is a Remington model 721. I have tried them in Remington 700 SPS and Mossberg (100 I believe, forget what model my buddy had). The only lube I am using is the one-shot from Hornady right before I size them.
     
  5. USMCGRUNT_0341

    USMCGRUNT_0341 Member

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    A-Fixer, I am using the RCBS full length in a Hornady AP press. I am trimming the brass to the recommended 2.484 length. The only lube I am using is the one-shot over the entire casing. I was thinking the same thing about a bulge, but from the caliper it doesn't appear to be so.

    I just had one that was stuck and tried the extra quarter turn down after the die hits the plate. The casing loaded perfectly after that. I may try to do them all over again using the extra quarter turn method. But I will see the replies I get on here first.

    I will attach a pick of a round that was stuck. I painted it blue and you can see how far the sizer went. This one works well in the Remington 721 now, but I have to check the other two rifles. I am wondering if that extra "quarter-turn" made a big difference?
     

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  6. USMCGRUNT_0341

    USMCGRUNT_0341 Member

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    I keep saying "stuck." When I am saying this, I mean in the rifle and not in the sizer. Sorry for any confusion.
     
  7. ironworkerwill

    ironworkerwill Member

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    I had the same problem once! All that needed to be done was bump the shoulders back a couple of thou. I dont know about the progressive loader tho because the solution to the problem is to make my single stage press cam over and push the sholders back. USE LUBE when the press cams over unlubed cases will stick!
     
  8. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Maybe you set the sizing die too tight??

    If it's too tight, the press linkage can't cam over or reach full extension stop, or whatever the Hornady AP press uses to limit full ram travel.

    If it isn't able to reach full stop extension, sizing will be very inconsistent, just like you are experiencing.

    Maybe loosen the die and start over with adjustment?
    Run the ram up, screw the die down to touch the shell holder.
    Then lower the ram and screw it down just a smooch more while feeling the press handle for full stop handle movement to a positive mechanical stop built in the press, and full shell plate travel.

    Harder to explain then it is to do!

    You might also want to invest in an L.E. Wilson .308 case gage.
    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/880646/le-wilson-case-length-headspace-gage-308-winchester

    It's a surefire way to set dies, and avoid tight cases without having to try every one in the rifle.

    rc
     
  9. USMCGRUNT_0341

    USMCGRUNT_0341 Member

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    Iron, not to say "Misery loves company," but I am glad to hear that it has happened to someone else. After about a month of trying every test that I can think of, I was on the verge of throwing a 1000 cases in the middle of the street :cuss:.....haha. I will wait to see if anyone else had similar experiences and then try the best route. Thanks for the response!!
     
  10. ironworkerwill

    ironworkerwill Member

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    like r.c. said its harder to explain than to do. make adjustments to allow the press to cam over. i'll bet it'l fix your problem.
     
  11. c.latrans

    c.latrans Member

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    I was going to say to adjust your die to where your shell holder just kisses, but RC put it better. Try that first and let us know. At least, it should make things consistent so that they all chamber the same....then if you need to micro adjust post back up and that is easily fixed. For whatever reason I think some of your cases are not fully sizing. It's not an uncommon deal. A trip through the trimmer would not hurt either....and since your cases are an unknown quantity, the old bent paper clip trick to detect thinning just above the web might be worth the effort.
     
  12. USMCGRUNT_0341

    USMCGRUNT_0341 Member

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    Thanks for all the replies. I am going to try again resetting the die first. I will run them all through the sizer and then give them a cut (if needed). I won't be able to get at them until this weekend, but I will check back with the completed results. Thanks again!
     
  13. Skyshot

    Skyshot Member

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    Do you think there is any chance those cases were fired in a BAR or some other semi-auto with a generous chamber. You may need a small base die.
     
  14. USMCGRUNT_0341

    USMCGRUNT_0341 Member

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    Bar,

    I would highly doubt that. But one never can be sure.
     
  15. fguffey

    fguffey Member

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    MCGRUNT, I am doing some extreme sizing, for example, 50 BMG cases, I started with adjusting the die down to the shell holder with no additional turns after contact (no load, no slack). After making the adjustment I sized a 50 BMG case using Imperial wax, the press flexed .016”, I tried sizing another case with Dillon in the can and bottle, no better. The press is an Ammo Master RCBS.

    I know the case is not being full length sized to minimum length because of the gap between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder, again, I use a feeler gage to measure the gap. To overcome the .016” I had to lower the die 2 turns .140”, after lowering the die and raising the ram to full length size there was no gap between the shell holder and bottom of the die. After lowering the die to size the case back to minimum length I thought the die and press was going to keep the case, after lowering the ram I thought the neck sizer ball/plug was going to shear off. When things go that ugly it is not easy to look like the operator of the handle knows what they are doing.


    I am surrounded with tools, tons and tons of tools and equipment, after sizing a case I do not remove the case from the ram to determine if the case will chamber, I do not find it necessary to lower the ram to determine if the press won or the case won, I measure the gap between the shell holder and bottom of the die, the part of the case that is not sized is keeping the die from getting close to the shell holder. There are some configurations that punish presses. The bottom .125” of the case head is not sized because of the shell holder deck height. The work out for the press comes when sizing the case above the bottom .125”.

    It is believed the web of the case is the though part to size, understanding when the case body is sized the shoulder is moved forward, I have no problem sizing cases with modified dies, the load comes when the case fits the die body, shoulder and neck, under a load the case must make the turn at the case body/shoulder juncture and the shoulder/neck juncture. It is easier to size cases with long case and shoulder tapers, when the case body angle is reduced and the shoulder angle is increased it becomes more difficult to compress the case and or get it to flow past the shoulder.

    A good lube allows the case to be sized, and at the same time allows the case to be released when the ram is lowered. I do not find Imperial a good choice when extreme sizing, I am not the fan of fighting the die and press to give me the case back.

    F. Guffey
     
  16. USMCGRUNT_0341

    USMCGRUNT_0341 Member

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    F. Guffey, thank you for the in depth response.
     
  17. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    It sounds to me like a headspace problem. The brass, not the rifle. You're just not setting the shoulder back enough for the round to fully chamber, since the shoulder is contacting the shoulder of the chamber. Ideally, you should be setting the shoulder back .002" from what your chamber is.

    Chambers vary widely, but are still within spec. You have to set up your sizing die for your rifle.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
  18. edfardos

    edfardos Member

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    progressive? Is the brass holder bent? I'm wondering if each slot hold the brass at the same height.

    just guessing,

    edfardos
     
  19. witchhunter

    witchhunter Member

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    Make sure that your cases are all trimmed to the correct length. You could be jamming some of the case mouths past the chamber....
     
  20. USMCGRUNT_0341

    USMCGRUNT_0341 Member

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    Thanks all. After reading until I have become cross-eyed, I think it has something to do with setting the shoulders back far enough. I ordered the Wilson headspace gauge, and may borrow a Dillon one tomorrow. I should have used that from the beginning.
     
  21. egg250

    egg250 Member

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    Your problem is that you're an 0341! Just kidding. The cases are mixed, likely fired from different rifles. Using a case that does not fit your chamber, adjust the sizing die until that case will fit.
     
  22. USMCGRUNT_0341

    USMCGRUNT_0341 Member

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    Haha...This is true Egg. I never had a problem loading a 60 or 81mm in a tube. They fit nice and easy.

    My concern is to get the rounds to fit a few different rifles. It's all gonna work out here soon.
     
  23. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

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    It's probably that the shoulders need to be bumped back another .001"-.002". I was just working with a new rifle today and encountered the same scenario. But it's not an unusual part of the reloading process for bottle necks when setting up for a new chamber, or using new brass, as it were. What I've determined is new brass, or brass that hasn't had more than one cycle through the chamber can bind up at the shoulders or the tapered body. After the second time through that chamber, the shoulders and tapered walls should be better formed / shaped / to that chambers physical characteristics, which means they will mate more evenly. Just continue adjusting your FL die down until the brass will at least chamber for now. On the next firing cycle and trip through the FL die, you will notice a much more consistent brass to chamber fit, which will also provide for less frustration when resetting shoulder height because they will be aligned more closely with each other.

    GS
     
  24. KansasSasquatch

    KansasSasquatch Member

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    With an LNL AP you can't simply adjust the sizing die down until it sizes properly. The press doesn't like to be "over-cammed". That's from my experience anyways. I get the best results when the sizing die is ran down until it just puts a very slight pressure on the shellplate. If that won't bump the shoulder back far enough then you may have to remove material from the bottom of the die so that it can be lowered further, or you can try another sizing die. You can over-cam a bit if you're willing to size only then run all the sized brass back through the press for the other stations. Over-camming on an LNL can cause the other stations to have fairly large variations if you try to run in full progressive, in my experience. But it sounds like you're already over-camming and still having sizing issues.
     
  25. rayatphonix

    rayatphonix Member

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    0341, You said you bought a Wilson headspace gage. I had a similar problem and once I got my brass to work with the gage, my problems went away. The adjustments to the die are very, very fine and once I got it worked out, I used a locking die ring so I could return to the same place every time.
     
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