carbine conversion unit,,or ccu

[ocharry]

thinking about getting one of these from Mech-Tech systems

any of you guys heard pro-con stuff on these

use a 1911 grip frame to convert to a carbine

i know they didn't have a very good rep a few years ago but they have changed them some and i thought i would see if you guys had anything good or bad to say about them

i just thought it would make a good house carbine and something to play with

thanks

ocharry

 

[rondog]

If you have the money and don't intend to mess up the 1911 frame, go for it! Bring us photos and a report.

 

[bigfatdave]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=549572&highlight=Mech-Tech

I thought that looked familiar

Get it and tell us all about it!

 

[Sam1911]

Quoting myself from the thread Dave linked:

There IS an important legal consideration, though.

According to the BATFE, once you assemble your handgun into the carbine configuration, you have made a RIFLE. Taking it apart again and reassembling it into a HANDGUN makes it a "firearm made from a RIFLE" -- in other words, an NFA Title II short-barreled-rifle -- and you would have to register it and pay the $200 tax BEFORE you do that.

No, it doesn't make sense. YES it is the law as the BATFE sees it.

Making a pistol into a rifle is perfectly legal. Making a rifle or shotgun into anything else is NOT legal without first registering it as a firearm "made from" one of those. This is an odd quirk of the language that made it into the National Firearms Act of 1934, and is most likely an unintended consequence, but it remains on the books and the ATF says they'll enforce it as such.

In other words, converting your 1911 into a carbine is a one-way trip!

So, if you have a spare frame, or $200 and a desire for a registered SBR, it makes sense. Otherwise, not so much.

Personally, I don't care for the manufacturer's cavalier attitude toward the legal issues, which seem to be summed up with, "Well, we don't agree with the BATFE on this..."

 

[NC Cruffler]

I've got one of the Mech Tech carbine conversion units for a 1911. Had it for about 5 years or so. Very much fun to shoot. I have a red dot scope on the top and use it regularly to vaporize clay pidgeons at 100 yards using 200 grain LSWC reloads. I've never had any problems with it at all. My only issue is the bolt return spring vibrates for a bit after each shot making a quick followup shot less accurate. They may have done something about this by now. I have noticed that the .45 ACP round has a trajectory curve shaped like a bowling ball at 100 yards.
Mech Tech Carbine Conversion unit

 

[rondog]

Quoting myself from the thread Dave linked:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam1911
There IS an important legal consideration, though.

According to the BATFE, once you assemble your handgun into the carbine configuration, you have made a RIFLE. Taking it apart again and reassembling it into a HANDGUN makes it a "firearm made from a RIFLE" -- in other words, an NFA Title II short-barreled-rifle -- and you would have to register it and pay the $200 tax BEFORE you do that.

No, it doesn't make sense. YES it is the law as the BATFE sees it.

Making a pistol into a rifle is perfectly legal. Making a rifle or shotgun into anything else is NOT legal without first registering it as a firearm "made from" one of those. This is an odd quirk of the language that made it into the National Firearms Act of 1934, and is most likely an unintended consequence, but it remains on the books and the ATF says they'll enforce it as such.

In other words, converting your 1911 into a carbine is a one-way trip!

So, if you have a spare frame, or $200 and a desire for a registered SBR, it makes sense. Otherwise, not so much.

Personally, I don't care for the manufacturer's cavalier attitude toward the legal issues, which seem to be summed up with, "Well, we don't agree with the BATFE on this..."

This makes no sense to me. The serial number is for a handgun, you make it into a carbine, the serial number is still a handgun. Put it back to normal, it's still a handgun just like the s/n says it is. So reverting it back into the original handgun configuration is illegal? That makes no sense whatsoever.

I DO like the looks of it though, looks like a fun toy!

 

[bigfatdave]

So reverting it back into the original handgun configuration is illegal? That makes no sense whatsoever.

A gun law doesn't have to make sense.
They don't have to make enforceable rules, either ... how, exactly, does the BATFE know when you've "made" a carbine, and how do they know that a given handgun was "made" into a carbine in the past?

 

[Sam1911]

This makes no sense to me. The serial number is for a handgun, you make it into a carbine, the serial number is still a handgun. Put it back to normal, it's still a handgun just like the s/n says it is. So reverting it back into the original handgun configuration is illegal? That makes no sense whatsoever.

The serial number doesn't matter. The serial number doesn't "SAY" it is anything one way or the other. Remember, the serial number (in most states) isn't registered anywhere. The only place it is even recorded is in the manufacturer's records (which don't belong to the ATF) and the sales form 4473, which resides with the dealer, until 20 years passes and it can be destroyed, and which only records what kind of gun was sold, that day. You can go change it to something else tomorrow and there is no record.

If you make it into a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder it is a Title I rifle or shotgun (or one of the Title II arms). That's by the definitions given under the NFA back in 1934. It doesn't ask what the serial number says. (Remember, serial numbers weren't even required back then.) It goes by what the gun actually IS. If you change it into another format, it is that kind of gun, not whatever it was before.

Sooooo... when you make your pistol into a rifled firearm with a barrel over 16" that is designed to be fired from the shoulder, it IS now a rifle. The digits stamped on the side of it don't change what it is.

So, you have to deal with that gun from now on as a rifle. Since it IS a rifle, making it (back) into a pistol creates a "firearm made from a rifle."

It sucks, and it is a stupidly legalistic problem created by the sloppy wording of the bits and pieces of text that made it into the final version of the law. But it is what it is.

 

[Sam1911]

...how, exactly, does the BATFE know when you've "made" a carbine, and how do they know that a given handgun was "made" into a carbine in the past?

How do they know when you've slapped your 12" Contender barrel on a frame that was configured with a buttstock? How do they know that your 10" pistol AR upper hasn't been on your M-4 stocked rifle lower? Etc., etc.

Getting away with it isn't the same as following the law, and difficulty of enforcement is not a positive legal defense.

 

[ocharry]

wow guys ,,i didn't mean to cause a fire storm here about these things

and my buddy that has a manufactures ffl was sayin something about the serial no. designation when it left the factory,,ie. it left as a pistol,,or it left as a rifle

i was concerned about having a pistol frame designated as a pistol when it left the factory and making it into a rifle,,however,,it looks like when i change it to a rifle i can't come back to a pistol,,and that is fine BECAUSE i was planning on building a dedicated frame for it and not ever changing it into a pistol

i have several 45acp pistols and i thought it would be cool to have a short carbine in the same caliber

as for how will the batf know,, well if you have to use this thing for self protection in your home and you kill someone with it ,,,i'm guessing they are (the batf) gona know all kinds of things about you and where this rifle was built or when it was born or where the parts came from,, and probably when you went to the bathroom last and what kind of toilet paper you use

but originally i ask if there were any pro-con stuff about the unit,, the reason i ask this is i seem to remember when they first started building them they were having feed issues

and i kinda wanted to know if you could put a double stack frame on the unit,, that may b a manufacturer question though

as for the comments,, keep it up i am learning a lot from you guys

thanks

ocharry

 

[Carne Frio]

I have a CCU sitting on top of a Glock M20 frame.
It was the easiest way for me to get a 10mm carbine.
Lot's of fun and very accurate.

 

[smince]

I had a 1911 .45 CCU for many years. It digested many 1000's of factory and reloads without any problems.

The only 2 problems: when we tried to attach the frame of a friend's hand-fitted match gun to the CCU. Evidently a certain amount of slop in the fit is required. This frame fit extremely tight and caused feeding malfunctions. And carppy surplus mags caused a few malfunctions.

Back to the mil-spec Springfield frame and quality mags and zero problems once again.