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Carcano expert

Discussion in 'Firearms Research' started by N8ball, Oct 26, 2020.

?

What is it

  1. Cartridge

    2 vote(s)
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  2. Dating

    1 vote(s)
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  1. N8ball

    N8ball Member

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    My friend handed me a carcano that I am currently just cleaning, the stock has been cut down and cleaned of any markings
    The rear sight is fixed, no adjustment
    There are many stamps that I've found after taking off the cut up stock
    The "magazine" is gone although I believe it would have used a stripper clip.
    The top of the rear sight says cal. 7.35
    There is an [SA] marking on the left side on the chamber where it meets the barrel amd another [SA] marking on the barrel where it threaded into the chamber.
    The right side of the barrel going into reciever is marked 1939XVII
    I'm sure you all have information but I need "the guy" to help. I'm not gonna do anything with it other than clean and oil it. No $ spent other than cleaning and not gonna load or buy ammo until I'm %100 certain that that's what it is.
     
  2. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    I will guess an Italian Carcano rifle, Series 1891, Model 1938, in caliber 7.35x51mm Carcano. Photos would help.

    The Carcano feeds from an enbloc clip holding six rounds. The clip and cartridges are inserted from the top as a unit with the bolt open. The clip serves as the feedlips for the magazine. When the clip is empty, inserting a fresh clip will push the empty out the small hole in the bottom of the magazine. My experience is that rarely will an empty clip fall free on its own.

    The 7.35x51mm cartridge was introduced by Italy to replace their original 6.5x52mm cartridge. Then they realized changing cartridges just before a world war would be a logistic nightmare. So most Model 1938 Carcano rifles were finished as 6.5mm or converted back to 6.5mm.

    The 1939 is probably the year of manufacture. My Model 38 is marked 1940.
     
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  3. pairof44sp

    pairof44sp Member

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    Question for the board:

    Am I going to regret not buying one of the $250 Carcanos currently available?
     
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  4. N8ball

    N8ball Member

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    I'll try to take some pics today as I am very interested to figure this out
     
  5. dh1633pm
    • Contributing Member

    dh1633pm Contributing Member

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    Its a 7.35 Model of 1938 I would think. The "SA" is the stamp of Finland, much like US Military rifles have the US. Italy sold their 7.35 MM Rifles to Finland.
     
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  6. N8ball

    N8ball Member

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    I just took pics bit I'm not good with technology.
     

    Attached Files:

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  7. N8ball

    N8ball Member

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    Crappy pics but I can do better. So much easier for my k98, and also not in a rush. May never actually shoot it even though I havent shot one in years amd feel like it's a good caliber.
     
  8. Terry G

    Terry G Member

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    Min was $12.95 plus $2.00 S&H. I wouldn't pay $250.00 for it. IMG_3703.JPG IMG_3704.JPG
     
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  9. N8ball

    N8ball Member

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    Cool!!
    This ones stock is clearly mutilate . Any markings from the stock are gone
    I'm very hesitant to but dies right now, I do have some 7MM bullets but I'm not very familiar with slugging a barrel so I'm not gonna do that It clearly states 7.35 on the fixed rear sight. May need to go back t ok my older loading manuals, still not gonna buy brass or do anything until I have a definitive answer on what it is
    I reload for every other centerfire I have but
    with ease amd accuracy but this one....... I'm intrigued and want to learn more.
     
  10. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    7mm bullets have nothing to do with a 7.35mm rifle.

    I have always wondered, if the Italians couldn't support their own rifle, what did the Finns do for ammo?
     
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  11. N8ball

    N8ball Member

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    At best with my calipers I found it to be between .285 and .293.
    Says it is 7.35 mm on the rear sight.
    What I'm not gonna do is guess but a 7mm is .284. Feed me info, this seems like the discussion of 7.62x39 rifles. Ruger is .308, and some ak's are.311 I understand all of that
    Feed me knowledge most humbly!✌
     
  12. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Hornady makes a bullet for the 7.35 at .300".
    Wiki says .298" which I think reflects a European notion that there be allowance for bullet material displaced by the rifling.
     
  13. N8ball

    N8ball Member

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    I feel like I should slug the barrel but I'm not set up for that, also not great with checking the chamber to figure out what brass I may need. Could me a clean it up amd give it back to the owner situation, I just enjoy the challenge but know when to tap out
     
  14. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    It appears clearly and consistently marked for model, caliber, and user.
    If I had it, I would take that as fact without the trouble of slugging and casting and go on to the question of whether I cared to pay for ammo or components plus dies. And clips. Like a Garand, it will not load from the magazine without its enbloc clip.
     
  15. N8ball

    N8ball Member

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    Agreed
     
  16. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    They are much better rifles than their reputation suggests. From an engineering perspective, they are very good infantry rifles indeed. But the Italians chose a 6.5mm bullet that isn't 6.5 mm, and a .30 cal bullet that was neither ..311 nor .308. And that has heavily contributed to their reputation for inaccuracy.

    As outlined in the excellent advice above, the 7.35x51 cartridge never really got off the ground, so ammunition is rare. I know that at least in the past, PPU produced 7.35 Carcano ammunition. Whether they have done so if late, I couldn't say.

    If I were going to shoot it, I would slug the barrel, make a chamber cast and see if there is a mould extant for a 130 - 140 grs bullet at @ .300" and start at about 20 hrs of IMR 4227.
     
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  17. Mr. Zorg

    Mr. Zorg Member

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  18. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    My dad has a 91/30. It's.........several steps below it's competition IMO. I'd rather have a mosin and sone ammo for that price.

    The only reason to absolutely get it is if you really want one. Surplus rifles disappear one day, no matter what
     
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  19. Mr. Zorg

    Mr. Zorg Member

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    Here's the Lee load data. More options than I'd figured were available. I've seen the en bloc clips on Gunbroker.com, I don't know if the 7.35X51mm has its own en bloc clip or whether the ones for 6.5X52mm work for both cartridges but someone, somewhere will know.

    20201027_032535.jpg 20201027_032553.jpg
     
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  20. N8ball

    N8ball Member

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    Not my rifle and wouldnt have been my first choice
    Thanks for the load data, I have several Lee manuals, I'll only buy dies after I slug the barrel and cast the chamber
    Right now I just want to date it amd figure out the markings
    Once I do that I will look into a clip for it
     
  21. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

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    One mark not identified above is "XVII" following the date, which is Roman numeral for 17 - being the 17th year of the Mussolini era.

    I haven't been able to find 7.35 x 51 ammo in stock for months. The last I had was PPU and they no longer list it on their website. Steinel also makes it and lists it but it's out of stock, not to mention $32 for 20 rounds AND they get their cases from PPU, so maybe it's permanently out of stock. Graf & Sons also get the brass they resell from PPU, so when theirs is gone, it's probably gone!!

    My Carcano was fun to shoot while I had the ammo, but I don't reload, so it's probably just going to be a closet queen going forward.

    PS: clips are available from Numrich.
     
  22. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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  23. Archie

    Archie Member

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    I have one the 1891 rifles in 6.5x52mm Carcano. As mentioned, it is a better rifle than popular opinion suggests, but not the first rifle I'd pick for most anything. As also mentioned the 6.5mm bullets for the Carcano measure .268 inches vice "all the other 6.5mm" bullets which are .264 inches. The smaller diameter bullets seem to have less a connection with the rifling and do not give as good accuracy.

    The 'en-bkoc' loading clips used for the 6.5mm Carcano should be the same as for the 7.35mm; they seem (from the dimension tables in Cartridges of the World) to be the same head size and the bullet size is immaterial.
     
  24. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

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    They are.

    I seem to remember reading somewhere that PPU was going to change the bullet diameter for their 6.5 mm Carcano to what it's supposed to be to match the rifle, but I can't find it now.
     
  25. Mr. Zorg

    Mr. Zorg Member

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    The 2016 Prvi Partizan catalog shows all the different bullets (at that time) and in the cartridge data details which bullet is used It includes a 123 grain 6.5mm nominal soft point bullet with .268" diameter designated B-352, and notes at the time of that catalog it's one of the new bullets. It also includes a 139 grain FMJ 6.5mm nominal bullet with .268" diameter designated B-605.

    In the section for factory ammunition details, there's data for cartridges loaded with these bullets as well as other 6.5mm nominal bullets for 6.5X52mm Carcano.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw2_9_Sz7MCIswLcZjXHr3Ok

    Graf & Sons carries these as component bullets.

    https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/29101

    https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/29100
     
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