Carry all the time, video reminder.

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by CDW4ME, Sep 14, 2021.

  1. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    Man attacked by pit bulls, saved by neighbors.
    Having a gun on person would have been advantageous.
     
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  2. 1942bull

    1942bull Member

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    Long ago I decided to carry all day everyday because I was a professional photographer who shot news, sports and corporate assignments. On the average day I was carry about $5,000 worth of top quality photo gear. I always felt like a target for some mugger or robber. Well one day I was not working but still carrying when a neighbor’s pit bull attacked me. It got hold of my left arm. It was summer and I ad a short sleeve shirt on. Fortunately my right hand was free so I could draw my LC9S. I shot the dog in the head, and proceeded to the nearest hospital emergency room to get treated. Every time I see the scars on my arm I am reminded that some dangerous threats have more than two legs. Take heed to the OP’s message.
     
  3. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    While the incident cited happened to involve a put bull, the subject of the OP was carrying all the time.
     
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  4. chicharrones

    chicharrones needs more ammo

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    Some folks around here carry "walking sticks" to ward off predators. For those strong enough to use walking sticks, they certainly could be handy.
     
  5. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes indeed!

    There is also pepper spray
     
  6. The Last Outlaw

    The Last Outlaw Member

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    Like I said, I work with them every day. Can you cite a source for that percentage?
     
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  7. The Last Outlaw

    The Last Outlaw Member

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    That's true, so I will say I carry all the time, wherever legal
     
  8. Meeks36

    Meeks36 Member

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    Pepper spray doesn’t always work on dogs and humans. Had a lab pit mix named baby girl. Super protective. One day the mail lady shows up to drop a package off. And baby broke her runner. One empty can of pepper spray later and she was still ready to go. The mail lady was fine she sprayed and jumped into her truck. Dog was fine. Kept her indoors from that day forward. I never asked what brand she was carrying. Could have been a off brand junk kind idk. So I carry worlds hottest and a lc9 for walks.
     
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  9. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    Video was hard to watch.

    carry gun(s) as often as possible.
     
  10. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    Right. :thumbup:
     
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  11. Hartkopf

    Hartkopf Member

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    I carry a gun on my property all of the time because of the numerous large dogs in the area. None are Pits but they are all big enough to maul someone to death.
     
  12. TarDevil

    TarDevil Member

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  13. Tinman357

    Tinman357 Member

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    While I too believe that there are no bad dogs, just bad owners, that isn't going to matter when I have 2 dogs chewing on me. A bad injury would certainly impact my life tremendously.

    I carry a walking stick when out walking, I sometimes carry a good spray, when I can. I always carry my sidearm while awake, close by when sleeping.

    I've noted a general increase in agressive people in this last year as well. I've had to defuse more tense moments in this last year than the previous 10 combined.

    I've seriously looked into getting a discreet body cam to use whenever I'm out of the house.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
  14. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    I carry pepper spray on my bicycle and it sure seems to work on any dog who ever chased me.

    I never had one who got a GOOD blast of it ever chase me again.
     
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  15. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    There are risks associated with dog attack. For us on THR, the relevant questions pertain to what to do about those risks.
     
  16. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    I carry all the time. The video is just one example of why.

    Expanding on the topic though, a more pertinent debate even than carrying all the time might be when to act in a situation like the OP's video.

    You'll notice the dogs initially just approach barking. Are you just going to draw down on and shoot any dogs that approach barking? Many times in an instance like that if you become the aggressor moving forward yelling they will back down. Yes its a chance. Backing away is the other option that generally signals the dogs to keep approaching. That is also a chance because you don't know exactly when they might decide to commit.

    In the case of the video the guy starts backing away right off the bat. The dogs were actually somewhat slow to commit, it wasn't instant. He certainly had time to deploy a firearm.


    Just as with any SD situation its easy to QB it after the fact. If you haven't been in any dog skirmishes its difficult to say how you might react. I have been in a couple (not involving my dog). In a situation like the OP's video my initial reaction be to go forward and try to run them off. If that didn't work, and depending on what they decided to do it would be a quick move to create distance and draw. I also always have a knife on me so there's that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2021
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  17. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Administrator Staff Member

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    21 posts deleted so far because they were off topic.

    If you want to talk about various dog breeds, how to raise them, how not to raise them, argue about which breeds are nice and which are not and why, or why not, then do it somewhere else--all that is off topic for THR. If you feel that you just can't stay on topic then you need to just ignore this thread.

    This is thread is about self-defense against dog attacks and given the subforum topic, it is about strategies and tactics to use in dog attacks and how to train to use those strategies and tactics effectively.
     
  18. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator In Memoriam

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    I'm going to join my fellow mod in stating STAY ON TOPIC
    The only time I shot a 4 legged attacker it was A COYOTE!.
    Think about it - we carry and train to protect against threats, any threats
    We wouldn't say or worry the car jacker we dispatch was brought up wrong and a rocket surgery school drop out .
    He acted, we reacted, he lost, end of story
     
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  19. DukeConnor

    DukeConnor Member

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    I walk my dog quite a bit and run into loose dogs quite often.
    The ferocity of a dog fight is unnerving.
    Thankfully I have never needed to use a weapon.
    I carry pepper spray and my edc. My first choice would be spray to keep em away.
     
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  20. bassjam

    bassjam Member

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    IMO aggression towards a dog can be a double edged sword and I don't know that there's a right answer. That could scare off some dogs, and trigger others. A few years ago I opened my side garage door and inches away was a pit bull. My wife was right behind me so without even thinking I yelled and stomped towards it and fortunately it started running off, and then I noticed a second one near my car and it started running away too. Then my Golden Retriever runs out of the woods where he'd been hiding from the dogs and starts chased them across the street and 200 yards across the bean field before turning back. I don't think those dogs had any intention on being aggressive, but later I wondered what would have happened if they were looking for trouble and I made it worse. It's one thing to try to scare off a small or medium sized dog, but bad owners or not some breeds were designed to kill and I don't know that it's smart to give them a reason to act. A neutral confidence is probably the best route to take, because as you pointed out backing away and showing fear is never the right approach.

    I also found it amusing that my Golden, who was never afraid in the past to bark at stray dogs, decided his best option with these two was to quietly hide in the woods (he never goes in the woods unless I'm with him). Anyway, after that was when I started carrying a little NAA .22 around the house and property until we finally fenced everything in a few years ago.
     
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  21. Scrapiron45

    Scrapiron45 Member

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    To the original posts point of carrying all the time I'd like to add that few people realize how quickly a bad situation can develop. Two to three seconds, if that much, is often all of the time one has to realize things are going to hell. The ability to present and accurately fire a weapon in that time is a skill few have but can be learned with proper training and practice. Regardless if the attacker is two or four legged, reality suggests it will happen fast and probably be the most violent encounter most of us will ever face which can be a hard thing to get your brain wrapped around.
     
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  22. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    I had an instance long ago where I was walking with a girlfriend and we were approached by 3 large dogs, Dobermans.

    They stopped about 10' away and started growling. I wasn't carrying and have to admit i was scared, but I went on offense and started yelling loudly at them, waving my arms and stomping my feet.to make more noise.

    Fortunately, they backed away and left. Did I mention I was scared? Currently, I carry all the time, but I still would have tried everything, as i did, before shooting. Killing someone's dog may initiate another violent attack. If you hurt my dog you better have a damn good reason.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  23. Hartkopf

    Hartkopf Member

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    I think about that too. Shooting the neighbors dog is the last resort.
     
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  24. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep!
     
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  25. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    With this in mind...

    Canines have certain instinctive traits, some breeds of which these traits are stronger while others are less so.

    Also just as important is breed capabilities.

    There are breeds of canine far more aggressive than "pit bulls" (a slang term, by the way, not a breed). However, many of those aggressive breeds are far less capable of causing serious injury compared to others.

    Those annoying little Chihuahua's, for example, are very aggressive dogs. But few people give those little pipsqueaks serious thought when it comes to actual physical danger.

    A German Shepard, however, is taken quite seriously, even though they aren't as stupidly aggressive as the Chihuahua.

    And don't even touch wolf-hybrid canines. (That's another discussion.)

    It's often what the breed can potentially DO that actually worries people rather than their actual aggressive traits.


    All that said...you can find a dozen lists online about aggressive dogs and how they're ranked...and likely find they're all ranked differently even if they contain several of the same breeds.


    What this really means is that people's first line of defense in an actual canine encounter is understanding those instinctive traits and how to apply that knowledge.

    - Canines are territorial. In general, if you remain outside their actual territory they are less likely to actually attack UNLESS provoked. Actually violate their territory and attack may be unavoidable.

    - Physical acts/behavior on your part may trigger violent/predator results in the canine. If you ACT like prey, then you will be PERCEIVED as prey. If you act like a dominant predator in your own right, then you MAY stave off an attack. This doesn't mean challenging the canine on specifics, like territory or food, for example. If you place the canine in a position where it feels like it must act or lose what it perceives to be its own, then attack may be unavoidable. If you exhibit stalking behavior, a canine WILL pick up on that and warn (posture, growling/barking) and/or attack.

    While sudden violent animal attacks out of the blue aren't something you can necessarily ward off by leaving/changing your behavior, encounters in which the danger is advertised by the animal first can often be successfully avoided if you understand their behavior and work to mitigate the danger and leave.


    Actually killing the animal should be a last resort for a variety of reasons. If you pre-emptively kill the animal, then you took no action to mitigate/avoid the encounter which may mean it was needless. If you force an encounter, you'll likely find out how quick/agile those critters can be and how difficult it is to actually physically defend yourself, with or without deadly force. Killing the critter is of little solice if you have to go the rest of your life with scars and other physical injuries to show for it. And I'm just talking about the encounter itself, here. There are legal issues, problems with neighbors to consider, and any number of other issues that probably ought to be avoided entirely.
     
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