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Carry At Work?

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by BulletArc47, Jan 5, 2013.

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  1. Unistat

    Unistat Member

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    In my previous job, I worked for a small city and the employee handbook stated that employees were forbidden to carry unless specifically authorized by the chief of police. I never did get around to asking for authorization, though I carried everyday after I got my permit.

    My boss (a department head) & I were two of four people that worked in our building/department and she knew and approved (off the record) of my being armed. There were plenty of times that I was glad for it due to the nature of my job. And yes, I was absolutely prepared to lose that job over the issue.

    At my current job I absolutely do not carry. Not even a knife. I leave my gun locked in my car (in the secure parking lot.) Since I work in a jail, I do not disagree with this policy at all.
     
  2. Bullnettles

    Bullnettles Member

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    Carry all day, every day. Would even if it was against company policy. My life is worth more than a job.
     
  3. Enachos

    Enachos Member

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    We have a no-carry rule at my job but my personal safety and well-being comes first. The boss and the rest of the staff are aware that I carry (I'm always talking about guns). They are fine with it. They know I'm a responsible gun owner. Sometimes I wonder why we even have that rule considering I'm not the only one who carries at work. At anytime there are atleast 3-4 guns present at work. Whether on person or in a personal vehicle. Gives everyone a good sense of security.
     
  4. thorazine

    thorazine Member

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    Currently I am self employed so it doesn't matter. :D


    All of the W2 positions I have held in the past I carried concealed and would have been promptly fired if anyone would have found out.

    Just conceal it extremely well.

    Don't talk about firearms.. etc..
     
  5. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    Seems like those who carry in violation of their employers wishes are not taking the high road. You agreed to the terms of the job, if you don't like it quit. It is dishonest, cowardly, and dishonorable to do so.
     
  6. Ragnar Danneskjold

    Ragnar Danneskjold Member

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    Wrong.

    It is dishonorable to not take someone's life and their right to self defense seriously. Honor is repaid with honor. Respect is repaid with respect. Consideration is repaid with consideration. When one party refuses to offer any of these things, they deserve none in return. Any employer who forces an employee to disarm has lost the right to expect to have their rules in regards to carrying followed.
     
  7. kyletx1911

    kyletx1911 Member

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    yep for me too cept when i go to ft hood
     
  8. Spike_akers

    Spike_akers Member

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    i more than likely will not carry while at work. being a mechanic there is no way i could be sure it was always concealed.. although.. some of the irate customers have really made me wonder.. myself, and a few others plan to talk to the owner to discuss it. but i wouldnt carry at work because it is in violation of the law to carry on private property when prohibited by owner... and i would rather leave my gun in my truck, and keep my right to carry else where, then get caught, and lose that right all together. my work is in a decent area, so im not too worried... although as i said, a few customers have really made me question my safety there.. seems anytime someone has to pay for things they dont want to, they get angry. go figure.. but while i was delivering pizza in the oh so wonderful downtown charlottesville, i really wish i had been old enough to carry.. some situations there (since we delivered till 3 AM) made me carry a rather large spring assisted stiletto... and i got chewed out by the owner because of it. but i refused to not carry it..
     
  9. thorazine

    thorazine Member

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    (yawn)

    Did you say something?
     
  10. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    Ummm...

    I'm a wee bit confused here.

    Policy versus law...correct me if I'm wrong here, but if it's the policy of a company (read: private business) NOT to allow firearms either on their property or in their place of business, then does that not carry the weight of law within the scope of applicable state and federal laws?

    For example, SC state law, section 23-31-220 says:

    "Nothing contained in this article shall in any way be construed to limit, diminish, or otherwise infringe upon:

    (1) the right of a public or private employer to prohibit a person who is licensed under this article from carrying a concealable weapon upon the premises of the business or work place or while using any machinery, vehicle, or equipment owned or operated by the business;"


    Virginia also recognizes the right of an employer to ban firearms on his property, if he so chooses.

    Even Texas recognizes the right of employers to ban firearms in company buildings, offices, and vehicles.


    So, if the POLICY is in keeping with state and federal statutes, then VIOLATING the policy is VIOLATING the law, is it not?

    ???
     
  11. Spike_akers

    Spike_akers Member

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    Exactly. That's why I don't plan on carrying at work. If the laws in your state give the owner of private property the right to ban, or prohibit firearms, you are breaking the law, not just a company policy, and it will likely result in more than just the loss of your job... I'd rather leave my gun in the truck, then lose my right to carry elsewhere.
     
  12. david58

    david58 Member

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    My company does work on gov't contracts (defense related) and consequently carry is a violation of Federal Law. So not only would I lose my job if detected, I could be prosecuted. At this time, I don't feel particularly at risk, and and rather bemused that our alarm has three different alarms, one for a chemical spill, one for an armed terrorist, and one to evacuate.

    We turn off the lights and hide for the terrorist alarm. Like that is gonna work. However, I would venture that 25% of the folks in the workforce have a gun in their car, policy or not.
     
  13. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    Policy can be backed by law but does not always carry the force of law... it depends on the penalties that can be brought to bear for a violation. Being asked to leave company property over a violation of policy, while it may be legal for an employer to demand, is different than being arrested.

    It may seem like hairsplitting, but the reason it was mentioned in the first place is that ST&T has a policy (not backed by law) of not endorsing or supporting illegal acts.

    Violate policy at the risk of being disciplined, that we can discuss - and some might even endorse without penalty here.

    Violating law, we won't discuss save to say 'don't do it.'

    Clearer?
     
  14. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    I clearly understand the difference between discussing violating the law vs violating policy, and the legal ramifications of that on this website.

    And yes, your explanation is clearer, thank you.


    However, members on this site come from all over the United States...and beyond. The laws affecting one member are not necessarily consistent with the laws affecting another.

    I mentioned South Carolina, where I am a resident. Section 16-23-20 (Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.) says:

    It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:

    (13) the owner or the person in legal possession or the person in legal control of a fixed place of business, while at the fixed place of business, and the employee of a fixed place of business, other than a business subject to Section 16-23-465, while at the place of business; however, the employee may exercise this privilege only after: (a) acquiring a permit pursuant to item (12), and (b) obtaining the permission of the owner or person in legal control or legal possession of the premises;


    And the statute I mentioned earlier says that a business owner can also restrict weapons on the premises as well.


    So the reason I bring this up is specifically because in SOME places a violation of a company exclusion policy IS a violation o fthe law. And the particulars of the circumstances involved are important in making this determination.

    And just because a company may only fire a person for a violation of company policy doesn't mean that the person didn't violate a law. The decision to bring charges against the individual typically rests with the company, which may or may not pursue that avenue.


    As an example of variances in state laws, in Texas a business cannot deny an employee the right to legally have a firearm in their own car, even in a company parking lot. This is not the case in South Carolina, where a business can restrict this on the premises as well as the work place, per the statute I cited in my earlier posting.


    So it seems to me that it behooves us to recognize the legal circumstances which are pertinent to our own situation when we make such statements about carrying at work. Since the policy of this site is not to advocate or condone breaking the law, we can't just say "I'm gonna carry anyway, bugger 'em". We have to put it into the context which is applicable to our case.

    We have a lot of well meaning people on this site who rightly value their ability, and right, to provide for their own defense. And we each have a responsibility to advocate the PROPER way of going about that.
     
  15. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    We constantly exhort members here to KNOW THE LAW in their own jurisdiction, as well as any other jurisdiction where they plan to carry.

    But another reminder never hurts...
     
  16. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    Heh! It's quite the challenge to keep up on all the laws in one jurisdiction, much less a dozen or more that one may be entitled to carry based on reciprocity.

    Still, that's the responsibility we take on with that permit.

    :)
     
  17. B yond

    B yond Member

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    I did until they started paying me enough that it wasn't worth getting fired over... Now I'm just another sheeple, but a well-paid sheeple with an otherwise good job.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
     
  18. TonyDedo

    TonyDedo Member

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    Many will say "Concealed means concealed." Better to be alive and fired than dead and hired...

    I think it's a choice each individual must make for himself.
     
  19. 69Rebel

    69Rebel Member

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    That's what I tell everyone in a questionable position.
    In concealed carry, the operative word is "concealed".
     
  20. rodinal220

    rodinal220 Member

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    Not seeing it,is like not having it to the obtuse types.Concealed means concealed. Its your right and not a privilege.My employer cannot tell me not to wear a Star of David or a Cross around my neck,why is the Second Amendment different???
     
  21. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    Because when you accept a job, you agree to abide by all company policies. If their policies are unacceptable, you don't have to work there.
     
  22. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    Your [non-governmental] employer is not regulated by the Constitution. There are statutes prohibiting discrimination in employment on the basis of race, religion, and several other specific things. Your having a gun isn't one of those things.
     
  23. mikechandler

    mikechandler Member

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    If only things were really that cut and dry.

    My company has a no-firearms rule that includes NOT EVEN IN YOUR CAR. Which means that you cannot be armed on the way to work.

    According to what you said, I need to obey right?

    Now add this to the mix:

    In the state of AZ it is ILLEGAL for an employer to ask you to not have a firearm in your car, UNLESS the parking lot is fully fenced, and patrolled by armed guards.

    And yet our parking lot is unfenced, on two full sides, and it is not guarded. Sure there's a camera at one end, and the facilities guys can see what's going on - if they're even in their office looking at that monitor. But even they are unarmed.

    According to you, we should obey their rule anyway. But according to our State law, it's an illegal policy. Should we follow their wishes, or follow our state law?

    Which one is really the high-road now?
     
  24. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    In a situation like that you will need to make a choice, and you have several options:

    1. Have a gun locked in your car in the company parking lot.

      Of course, if you are caught by your employer with a gun locked in your car on company premises, you will probably be fired. Then, depending on the employment law in Arizona, you might well be able to sue you employer for wrongful termination because the policy you were fired for violating contravenes state law.

      You might stand a good chance of winning, but you'll be unemployed while things get sorted out. And if Arizona has strong "employment at will" laws and judicial decisions, you could still lose.

    2. You could choose to abide by your employer's policy.

    3. Another option.

      Contact a local gun rights advocacy group. Perhaps they would be willing to have a lawyer contact your employer and point out that the "no guns" policy violates state law. Of they might even be willing to take stronger action. Sometimes that sort of thing can get an employer's policy changed.

      Using the good offices of a RKBA group also keeps you out of it.
     
  25. kgpcr

    kgpcr Member

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    I follow my companies policy on carrying at work. If you decide to violate that and get fired you have it coming. You knew that when you took the job.
     
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