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Carry pistol failure..

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Weldonjr2001, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. Weldonjr2001

    Weldonjr2001 Member

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    Nope. After you pull the trigger slightly, and the hand initiates cylinder rotation, and you release the trigger, the hand retreats to its inward position and is not even close to the cylinder star. The only thing contacting the cylinder is the bolt, which snaps into the next available locking notch as you continue cylinder rotation by hand.
     
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  2. Highland Lofts

    Highland Lofts Member

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    I carry a Smith 642, front pocket carrybit everyday/allday for about eight years no.
    I wanted to see how long it would take with no cleaning other then a patch through the cylinder and barrel.
    It took a little over seven years to start to get too gumed up to be of any use.
    Now it will get a regular cleaning atleast once a month.

    A couple of years ago Costal Tractor had a sale on the 642 revolvers, $359 so I bought an extra one.
    I also bought a stainless Smith 640.

    I trust a revolver over a semi, just a personal thing.
     
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  3. Haywood

    Haywood Member

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    I’ve always liked Revolvers best. Back in the day I tried several semi autos but always had a backup snub in my pocket. I read too many stories of handgun failures and a backup was needed. These days I only carry J-Frames. Normally it’s Two 442’s. Recently I got a 3” S&W36 now I’m carrying the 36 in the waist and a 442 in my off hand pocket. 742BF431-E0A0-4FD4-8D51-F0C3D1C12B11.jpeg
     
  4. NMPOPS

    NMPOPS Member

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    I had a M60 for over 20 years wish I still had it) but now I carry either my 642-1 or 638-3. Both are great guns and I have never had a failure. I've been carrying j frames since 1978 when I started in police work. I carried a M19 then a M686 for first 15 years of my LE career and the only problem I ever had was the hand on my 19 had to be replaced after about 19 years but the gun still fired, the hand worked it had just worn down. Also I have never felt the need to "Check Rotation" of the cylinder after loading. Unsafe practice!!
     
  5. bdickens

    bdickens Member

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    :what:Sweet mother of Jesus! I'm sure glad I don't live next door to you!
     
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  6. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, I have to agree, pulling the trigger on a loaded gun probably isn't an ideal checkout method.
     
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  7. JERRY

    JERRY Member

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    get the hand replaced and carry the gun. that sort of failure is extremely rare on a gun that hasn't been abused. chances of it happening again with the same gun are far less than it happening the first time with another gun.
     
  8. Charlie Martinez

    Charlie Martinez Member

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    I read that every day before heading out the door Wild Bill Hickock cleared & cleaned his revolver cylinders & reloaded them with fresh primers & new powder charge before heading out the door. This guy knew that gun failure was not an option. Must be a hell of a thing to draw a gun in a bad situation only to realize it was no good.
     
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  9. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Sarah Chang does not die if her violin malfunctions. But if you switch to guitars, many guitarists keep several up on stage with them and switch between them for different sounds, and then there's the 'smash-it-up-at-the-end-of-the-show' guitar......of course, they have 'guitar techs' who lovingly take care of their axes for them-kind of like having your own personal gunsmith.
     
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  10. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    We were speaking of "rotation".

    Malfunctions are something else.

    [QUOTE="entropy, post: 11394634, member: 9189",,,]if you switch to guitars, many guitarists keep several up on stage with them and switch between them for different sounds, and then there's the 'smash-it-up-at-the-end-of-the-show' guitar....[/QUOTE]The civilian defender does not need "different sounds".
     
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  11. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Gotcha. Although a BOOM when needed is MUCH better than a CLICK...;)
     
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  12. jfurlong

    jfurlong Member

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    They’ve been around for a long time.
     
  13. HB

    HB Member

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    Yes, modern double actions are about the same age as machine guns, smokeless powder, and semi automatic pistols.


    I would agree that I would get the hand fixed and keep shooting. But be aware that all guns can have parts failures.
     
  14. FlSwampRat

    FlSwampRat Member

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    This is why I have Snap Caps for every gun I own. Makes checking things out a lot safer and I like my neighbors.
     
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  15. 303 hunter

    303 hunter Member

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    I’ve had two revolvers with broken cylinder hands, both were Taurus. One was a model 66 357 magnum , the other a 22; both had less than 200 rounds fired.
     
  16. RJM52

    RJM52 Member

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    Having dinner at friend's house about 6 years ago and was discussing carry guns...he pulled his out to show me....

    upload_2020-2-21_16-23-23.jpeg

    upload_2020-2-21_16-23-53.jpeg


    342 Ti I think..he had a pair of them. One for the house and one he carried...only had a couple of boxes of ammo through them...

    Barrel unscrewed and and apparently fell out of the bottom of the holster as only the shroud was there... Called S&W the next day and it was back in about two weeks...

    Bob
     
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  17. fastbolt

    fastbolt Member

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    If it were me, as a S&W revolver owner and shooter, and a S&W armorer, I'd not do this sort of partial manual manipulation of the trigger, hand & cylinder to any of my S&W revolvers. FWIW, that's not something taught in the revolver armorer class.

    It sounds like you're engaging the hand's tip against a ratchet to start carry-up, but then instead of allowing the hand to slide up past the initial cut angle and slide against the next part of the ratchet, you make the hand drop away before the tip has moved away from the small angled cut of the ratchet (as designed).

    Also, if you're using hand pressure to rotate the cylinder (thinking about turning the cylinder until the stop's ball locks into a cylinder stop notch) as you think that hand is pulling away, you may be introducing some additional unintended (and unrecognized) pressure during the ratchet/hand tip engagement.

    This isn't how the hand was designed to contact the ratchet cuts, and you're stopping the normal movement of the hand's top tip/edge in an awkward point of its normal action. You're basically introducing a sudden change of the mechanical engagement, function and movement of the hand (relative to the ratchet cuts) that wasn't intended by the engineers. Why?

    If you want to confirm carry-up with the empty cylinder, why not just confirm carry-up by pulling the trigger in the manner it was designed to be functioned? You could also look in through the head space gap to confirm the firing pin tip protrudes, at the same time. ;) Then, after you confirm carry-up, you could do a last visual inspection of the hand's tip. (This would've probably allowed you to have seen the damaged tip before loading and holstering the snub.)

    Now, since this involves a revolver that uses moon clips, if you want to use the clips for the "check" I'd use dummy rounds (or empty cases) to position and stabilize the the clips for the carry-up check, if doing such a check is something you feel bound and determined to do. (Then I'd check the firing pin movement and tip integrity by opening the cylinder and pushing on the thumb latch, and just look at the firing pin tip as it protrudes from the breech face for the trigger press.)

    Granted, it always possible that there was an unseen materials or manufacturing defect in that hand, and it finally failed (without any help from you). But why risk introducing some unusual mechanical operation and resulting condition that may, even if remotely, introduce unintended and unnecessary stress on the parts?

    Since this is what might be described as an unusual parts failure, hopefully the revolver repair tech will closely examine the extractor, checking for any signs of the hand having damaged the ratchet cuts (if it was a mechanical interaction that eventually caused the hand's tip to break). Extractors are cut by a special factory-made tool nowadays. Basically a trigger of the right model to which a length of steel bar has been welded, and in which is mounted a specially hardened "cutting" hand, which cuts off the ratchet tips with each "trigger stroke". Any fine tuning can still be done with a Barrett file, though.

    Not my 940, and I'm wasn't there and able to inspect it. It's your gun and your business. That said, I'm certainly not going to go out and pull one of my S&W revolvers from the safe to try and replicate the mechanical action to try and duplicate what you like to do, either. (Maybe if I had a beater revolver used in a revolver armorer class, but not with any of my own. :) )

    Just a couple friendly thoughts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
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  18. Waveski

    Waveski Member

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    Enjoyed that very much.
     
  19. JudgeHolden10

    JudgeHolden10 Member

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    Waitaminute—you were manipulating the trigger of a loaded firearm? Am I missing something here?
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
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  20. george29

    george29 Member

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    The more parts a device has just makes more things that can go wrong. Wafer thin Moon clips IMO are an unnecessary addition and I know this from once owning a Taurus 9mm revolver (to back up my G17). Now its 640 on belt 340 in pocket or ankle, no moon clips, instant NY reload. 38+P vs 9mm, 9mm isn't much of an improvemen, not to mention that 357 is also possible in the J frame. The French wanted a 9mm revolver which is why they were manufactured in the first place.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2020
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  21. MIOkie

    MIOkie Member

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    “The French wanted a 9mm revolver which is why they were manufactured in the first place.”

    I don’t think the French, or Sarah Chang, had any direct involvement in the failure of the hand in question.

    France did help us win the Revolution, paving the way for our Constitution and subsequent 2’nd Amendment.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2020
  22. george29

    george29 Member

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    Yes, and so did the Russian fleet but the fact remains that the 9mm revolver was not created for the US market.
     
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  23. FFGCOLORADO

    FFGCOLORADO Member

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    Partial pull of the trigger to see if there's rotation on a loaded revolver..where? Pretty gutsy, if ya ask me..and you aren't..
     
  24. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I have cleaned up some off topic etc posts, let's please stay on topic, it's an interesting subject.
     
  25. scaatylobo

    scaatylobo Member

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    AND = here is where you go to read the " 2 gun carry " thread on THR.

    As was taught to me " 2 is one,one is NONE" as far as survival ANYWHERE & ANYTIME goes.

    That goes for ANY tool or piece of gear that is a LIFE SAVER and without it you might die or suffer greatly.

    Obviously,if you needed that pistol and all you got was the one shot off,are you willing to bet your very life that you would have survived ?.

    You,and only you can answer that question.
     
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