Carrying a Sig P938 IWB - Cocked, but not Locked?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Garandimal, Mar 16, 2021.

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  1. Garandimal

    Garandimal member

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    Carrying a Sig P938 IWB - Cocked, but not Locked?

    It has a firing pin safety that is disengaged w/ the trigger... that has a heavier pull wt. than a Glock.

    If it's in a holster that covers the trigger, and is holstered/drawn/handled properly, why couldn't it be treated like a Glock, and mitigate the negligent safety engagement issue?






    GR
     
  2. Bo

    Bo Member

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    I carry mine cocked and locked in a OWB.
    Just like a mini 1911.
     
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  3. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    Length of travel, I guess, would be your concern. Even though similar weight a 1911(ish) trigger usually has very little travel compared to a Glock, less leeway for accidents.

    But as you say, it's already holstered before you unlock so with a firing pin safety I guess that's probably fine.

    The question does arise though, as to why? If the safety does get engaged in your holster, are you prepared to disengage it when needed? Muscle memory, practice, whatever. If you are, then why not use the safety anyway?

    Edit:. Even in good holsters I've had 1911 safeties manage to disengage somehow on occasion, I would not feel comfortable trusting that it's impossible for it to accidentally engage as well.
     
  4. memtb

    memtb Member

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    My wife carries a 938, and prefers “cocked and locked”! She follows the school of thought that releasing the safety is a reflex action .....not a thought action. Familiarity with the handgun develops the reflex action! memtb
     
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  5. IdaD

    IdaD Member

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    Trigger safety?
     
  6. .455_Hunter

    .455_Hunter Member

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    I agree there very little practical difference between one of the trendy "good" striker triggers and a Series 80 1911 in Condition 0 with a pinned grip safety. However, according to the continuum, carry of former is encouraged, while carry of the latter would be irresponsible.
     
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  7. drband

    drband Member

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    I pocket carry a 938 (have for years) and would be uncomfortable not using the manual safety. I carry it in an alabamaholster.com front pocket holster, so the trigger is fully covered and the manual safety is shielded. I think you just have to be comfortable with what you choose to do. My 938 has a short trigger travel with only a little take-up. Pull weight is around 5lbs. It's much lighter than it was initially and seems to have settled in at that weight. I think the pull weight is too light to not use the manual safety--even in a covered holster. I trust it completely as I carry it. You should be able to trust yours completely with your chosen mode of carry.
     
  8. BreechFace

    BreechFace Member

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    I agree, would hate to train for non use of a safety that remains on a firearm, only to pull it out when needed and not have muscle memory swiping the inadvertantly engaged safety.
     
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  9. BreechFace

    BreechFace Member

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    Is the P938 drop safe, without the manual safety? That is a big reason for the trigger dingle. That would be a potential hazard of carrying a p938 cocked and not locked, if there is no other means of drop safety. I know a firing pin safety does prevent some drop discharges, but with enough inertia within the trigger and trigger bar system of the gun can be cause of concern, if said inertia can overcome the 5lb pull with no dingle to stop motion.

    Your question is valid, as the P938 does have some safety features such as the hammer coming down without the trigger pulled will result it stopping at the 1/2 cock position.

    In your comparison to Glock, one should consider the three safeties of the Glock Safe Action and how it compares to the P938 without using the manual safety. I'm sure everyone is well aware of the Glock safeties, but it's always good to reconsider them when making comparisons.


    Glocks 3 safety system:

    Trigger Dingle Safety: Lever on trigger that must be pulled at the same time as the trigger itself to overcome the ledge that the dingle will encounter when not depressed. This prevents discharge when the trigger is not pulled. So in any encounter the gun would be engaged in, that doesn't involve pulling the trigger, inertia being the main defense against, the gun will not discharge.

    Firing Pin Safety: when trigger is pressed overcoming the dingle, the trigger bar pushes the firing pin safety upwards and removes the obstacle from the firing pin channel

    Drop Safety: Once the trigger safety and firing pin safety have been disengaged through the sequence of firing, the trigger bar has a ramp it must overcome. When the trigger is depressed the safety ramp will lower to release the firing pin.


    So compare the safeties of the P938 and see how it stacks up against the Glock overlapping safeties and make your judgements. Glock's can be downright abused in every way that doesn't involve a pull of the trigger and will not let a discharge occur.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
  10. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    It's a single action semi auto...


    So the safety is part of the system...

    What am I missing?

    I wouldn't dream of a cocked but no safety carry method with a SAO pistol.
     
  11. .455_Hunter

    .455_Hunter Member

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    The trigger flap safety helps to prevent firing during impact events by preventing inertial trigger motion. Some striker guns have them and some don't.
     
  12. Garandimal

    Garandimal member

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    The issue is... my primary carry is a Glock.

    As the OP vid demonstrates, the P938 will not fire unless the trigger is pulled.

    ... like a Glock.

    And the manual safety is stiff, positive, and covered by the holster (Galco swede Stow-N-Go IWB).

    As it is seldom carried because it's the trunks/tuxedo option, a lot of training goes into that manual safety, including "swiping" the Glock.

    Just occurred to me - maybe I'm doin' it backward.




    GR
     
  13. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    We're all adults here and you can do whatever you want without my permission.

    I'd carry it with the safety engaged, or with such a little gun, I may even carry it in Condition 3, but I'd not choose Condition 0.
    I don't think those soft/flexible leather holsters are offering you an advantage in this situation.

    Stiff leather or kydex would be my choice for holsters, especially if it didn't have a safety or long double action trigger pull.
     
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  14. UncleEd

    UncleEd Member

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    Funny how often through the years something
    has gotten into the trigger guards of handguns.

    Might be a finger while drawing under pressure,
    might be the edge of a faulty holster, might be
    a tie string from a windbreaker or the tail of a
    shirt.

    Couple those possibilities and other circumstances
    with a light trigger pull and you have.......
     
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  15. Garandimal

    Garandimal member

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    Same risk as a Glock... which I take every day, in the same IWB holster.




    GR
     
  16. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    https://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firearms/safety-warning-worn-leather-holsters-can-cause-accidental-discharges/

    In this case it is a worn out leather holster that became soft and allowed the gun to fire.

    In your case, you are starting with a soft holster to begin with. It's not something I'd choose, but it has worked for you so far.
     
  17. Garandimal

    Garandimal member

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    There, FIFY.

    That would never happen w/ a Stow-N-Go.

    Picture-005-1024.jpg



    GR
     
  18. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    You're saying you couldn't bend the mouth of that holster down, manually with your hands just for demonstration purposes, and into the trigger guard at any level of insertion into the holster?
     
  19. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    The poorly designed part was that it got soft which allowed it to bend inside the trigger guard.
     
  20. Garandimal

    Garandimal member

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    I could holster it w/ my finger in the trigger guard as well.

    I don't do that either.

    I'm in no hurry to reholster.

    I'm not an LEO in a running gun battle, or chasing a fleeing perp.

    I'm not in a "stopwatch" tournament, either.

    This is an SD carry.

    I'm either watchin' the threat run away... or lie there and bleed.

    Plenty of time for a safe reholster.




    GR
     
  21. Garandimal

    Garandimal member

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    As stated... a poor design.

    And, also stated... different than the Stow-N-Go.




    GR
     
  22. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    Let me be clear - you came and asked about a gun carried a particular way, and then gave us more information about what holster you were planning on using.

    I'm giving you the "book answer" - folks would not carry a single action gun without the safety engaged, and folks would not use a soft holster for a gun with a light/short trigger pull whether it is a striker fired gun with no manual safety or a single action gun carried in Condition 0.

    I wouldn't carry that gun in Condition 0, and I wouldn't use that holster for a striker fired gun and especially not with a single action gun in Condition 0. However, you have the option to carry any way you want.
     
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  23. Garandimal

    Garandimal member

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    Have carried the Glock, in that holster, for Decades.

    Picture_001_1024.jpg

    The Sig for ~ 5 years.

    0.0 issues w/ either.

    But then, I understand both the risks and their vectors.

    And the safety features built into a Proper holster.




    GR
     
  24. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    The guy in the linked article above didn't holster his gun in a hurry. His gun was already holstered. His holster was soft, and didn't provide much retention (like your holster), his gun moved in his holster, coming up and then down into the holster again, by his movement in the car. That it was also soft, it allowed the mouth of the holster to bend into the trigger guard as it went back down into the holster. That's how the gun fired. It wasn't a holstering at speed issue, it was a soft holster issue.

    A holster like yours, which is soft, provides very little if any retention. Your belt tension is the primary thing keeping the gun in the holster. If your gun moves up out of the holster due to some movement, that soft holster mouth opening is perfectly capable of engaging the trigger.
     
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  25. BreechFace

    BreechFace Member

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    @JTQ your statement is THE reason I carry in kydex holsters. I love the look of leather, but for everyday carry I rely on kydex.
     
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