Carrying at work, are you qualified?

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by P89DCSS, Jul 12, 2021.

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  1. P89DCSS

    P89DCSS Member

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    This discussion is aimed at office dwellers that occupy a cubical in a large office setting. As was "fired dude".

    In the now locked thread about the guy that carried at work, fired dude, I didn't see anyone bring up what I thought was important.

    I'm a cube rat and I've considered bringing a firearm into work. I got stuck on two critical points and as a result I do not carry a firearm into work.

    1.) Can you maintain possession of your firearm for the entire workday? Or will you be forced to leave your firearm in your office/cubicle while getting coffee, at lunch, during meetings, when you use the restroom? Fired dude left his firearm in his cubical when he met with HR. Security found his firearm with a quick search. Fired dude's coworkers knew he had a gun in his bag, they made jokes about it. IMO fired dude was very irresponsible. His gun could have been stolen and/or used for a mass shooting. He should be fired for that alone, even if he was allowed to have a firearm in his cubical.

    2.) Are you qualified for a mass shooter event? Most of us are not. Proper training includes full-sized, real-time simulators. With a final test that you are required to pass before carrying at work. Especially if your workplace is a common place for mass shooting. A school or college is a common place for example. Mass shootings are fast and furious. The idea that an untrained Average Joe is going to contribute good actions in a mass shooting are doubtful. The STEM school mass shooting in Colorado included a para-pro with concealed carry permit and zero training opening fire on the responding cops as the cops rounded a corner. He missed the cops but one of his rounds went through a wall and hit a kid. Just watching fired dude's drama video after abandoning his firearm to meet with HR makes me sure I don't want him to be armed around me.

    I'm lucky, even though I work at a common place for mass-shootings the County Board and School Board see the value of trained first responders. I eat lunch with them once a week as work friends and they talk about all the training they have to take and the qualifications they have to aquire to keep their jobs. It's very impressive and it makes me realize I'm not qualified to carry in my workplace.
     
  2. Hartkopf

    Hartkopf Member

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    I agree that everyone needs more training but if we go too far down this road, we will deem EVERYONE under qualified to carry at all.

    It is probably more important to be trained in the office cubicle setting like the OP outlines than in your average auto shop, lumber yard or for someone like a realtor. I would not want Joe blow spraying bullets in the office because he thought he heard gunfire but we all have the right to defend ourselves (where legal). I hate the idea of too many more rules put on the legal gun owner.
     
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  3. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    Nope. But there's something which can happen during a mass shooting that I believe I am qualified for (notice I did not say certified). And that is using my own personal firearm to try and stop someone who is trying and kill me.

    Do I have to use my firearm to try and prevent a mass shooter killing or harming others? No. Should I try anyway? Maybe, and maybe not. Depending on a large number of variables.
     
  4. GNP

    GNP Member

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    And yet we saw a citizen stop an attempted mass shooting and then get killed by a responding police officer just the other day. Training is good, but there are other factors in play here, just having a gun and the determination to use it might save many lives even in the hands of someone who isn't John Wick. If the shooter is unmolested you're gonna die anyway. I think anyone with decent common sense and proficiency with their weapon might get lucky and stop a mass shooter, and the alternative is not really a good option.
     
  5. P89DCSS

    P89DCSS Member

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    That wasn't in a confined space as an office setting is. Apples to oranges.
     
  6. P89DCSS

    P89DCSS Member

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    In an office cube farm you're more likely to kill an innocent in the situation you describe. And how are you maintaining control of your firearm all day long. You going to concealed carry? It's going to be obvious.
     
  7. P89DCSS

    P89DCSS Member

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    And I did restrict my conditions to a large office setting. When I was doing taxes at HRBlock I always had my LC9 in my backpack under my desk.
     
  8. GNP

    GNP Member

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    The LEO probably had a good bit of training, and that didn't prevent him from shooting the wrong guy, right out in the wide open. If you're caught in a mass shooting, the rules for response can probably be relaxed a little, the paramount importance here is to stop the mass shooter as quickly as possible.
     
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  9. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    I'm pretty good at maintaining control of my firearm all day long actually. It sits on the toilet cistern when I take a shower (in my own bathroom behind locked doors), and otherwise is in my full control.

    As far as being more likely to kill an innocent in a cube farm, do you know me? Do you know how I shoot? Do you know when I would shoot, and when I would not?

    I understand completely if what you really mean is that you don't have control of your firearm. And that you would be more likely to kill an innocent than shoot the threat. You know you pretty well. But you probably shouldn't speak for everyone else.
     
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  10. Howland937

    Howland937 Member

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    I'll preface by saying I'm not a psychologist, so Im not qualified to speculate on a "mass shooter's" psyche.

    It certainly seems that most who commit these things do so in areas where they're not likely to receive return fire. A whole lot of them have killed themselves either before or as soon as police arrived on scene. So my unprofessional assessment would be to call them cowardly.

    So, in your office you may not be qualified to protect everyone else but you should be qualified to protect yourself, if your company permits you to. If said shooter approaches your cubicle and is fired upon, it's at least plausible he or she is going to go in search of easier victims.
     
  11. Hartkopf

    Hartkopf Member

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    I disagree on this one. As the bad guy is walking cube to cube executing each person that is hiding behind particle board, if you have a gun, you have a chance. If you don’t have a gun, you are next in line. Of course we are all speculating and giving examples of what could happen. I have no preconceived notions as to how exactly a mass shooter nut job will kill people.
     
  12. Howland937

    Howland937 Member

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    In your OP, you listed 2 potential hang-ups to consider prior to carrying into your place of employment. You didn't specify if your employer prohibits possessing a firearm on their property, which would affect how you're able to be "in control of" or not moreso than anything else.
    If permitted, then carrying it all day should be NBD. Your employer is responsible for taking steps to provide a safe working environment for everyone. It's not your responsibility any more than it's your responsibility to provide a safe shopping experience for everyone at Wal-Mart. What you choose to do in regards to your own self-preservation is for you to decide.
     
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  13. P89DCSS

    P89DCSS Member

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    If I worked in a cube farm with no security and no controlled access I'd quit. The last thing I trust for my security is a untrained wannabe opening fire in a cube farm.
     
  14. Hartkopf

    Hartkopf Member

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    So you’re saying ALL gun owners are inept hazards to your safety? I hope the guy that passes you in the isles at the grocery store isn’t carrying.
     
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  15. P89DCSS

    P89DCSS Member

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    It's a gray area and open carry is specifically not allowed unless youre a badged peace office and you check in with security as your first stopping point. If I concealed carry security would recognize it immediately (open carry?) and I'd be in HR finding out how concealed carry applied to employees.

    We have really well trained security including deputy sheriff's. The regular security are qualified volunteer deputies that have the same qualifications as the deputy sheriffs. With full size, real time simulator training.
     
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  16. P89DCSS

    P89DCSS Member

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    Be honest, you're fine with anyone that can buy a gun thinking they can protect you in a mass shooting? I'd quit.
     
  17. Howland937

    Howland937 Member

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    So concealed carry is ok, or is not ok where you work? Are they checking everyone that comes through?
    I've carried concealed at a hospital that prohibited concealed carry inside their buildings. Upon arrival, I contacted their police department (big hospital, have their own PD and FD) as I was instructed to do when I called ahead. PD was to lock my gun and mags away until my departure. Wearing shorts and a t-shirt, responding officer looked me up and down and asked where my gun was. He was looking for it and couldn't tell I was carrying.
    Anyway, I think most of us that carry do so because we don't wanna rely on the "anyone that can buy a gun" trying to protect us, whether they're qualified or not.
     
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  18. LNK

    LNK Member

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    My company is always hiring, please do not apply. We are a bunch of men that know that we have to take care of ourselves, and each other. You would not feel safe here. You seem to think your company has security to protect you at work. I truly hope that is the case for you. Remember when that nasim woman shot those people at yahoo I think. They thought so too.

    Just like I am rural with about a 45 minute response time for the local sheriff's to arrive. Unless we can handle things, we are probably not going to make it should something happen. I am fine with my situation, I hope you are fine with yours.
     
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  19. Hartkopf

    Hartkopf Member

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    As I said in my first post, everyone needs more training.

    In a mass shooting, it’s all hands on deck. We can all huddle in a pile and wish somebody could do something. Never mind. You’re right, let’s just call everybody unqualified, hide behind a desk and pray. If only someone could help.

    I know what you’re thinking, let the qualified, trained employee take care of the mass shooter. That’s all fine if he didn’t choke (like the guard in the Miami school shooting). That’s all fine if he is successful in the shootout. That’s all fine if he’s alive and wasn’t targeted first by the nut job.


    There’s endless variables but we all know bad guys like soft targets with no return fire.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
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  20. P89DCSS

    P89DCSS Member

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    Like I say, in a tight cube environment I don't trust most people to be level-headed and hold their fire. My workplace has security well beyond most workplaces so I feel secure with our security. If I thought the likes of fired dude was carrying at my workplace leaving his weapon unsecured I'd quit. Not to mention no training for a very stressful, fast evolving environment.
     
  21. P89DCSS

    P89DCSS Member

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    So brave on the internet! And yes am am fine. If I worked with the likes of you I'd quit....
     
  22. P89DCSS

    P89DCSS Member

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    if I thought that was my situation I'd quit.
     
  23. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Anyone who carries a firearm for the purpose of protecting co-workers or the public at large and those duties aren’t part of their job description is carrying for the wrong reasons.

    I have the training called for in the OP but the chances of me intervening in an active shooter situation unless I was directly confronted are exactly zero. I’m responsible for myself and my loved ones if they are with me. I gave up my obligation to protect anyone else when I retired.

    If you’re carrying at work with the intention of being a hero when the active shooter comes into your workplace you need to step back and reassess why you are carrying to start with.
     
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  24. Hartkopf

    Hartkopf Member

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    You threaten to quit a lot.
     
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  25. LNK

    LNK Member

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    First you complain that people are not qualified, then you post how you bring a gun to work In a backpack, wondering if others are qualified. Then insult others that disagree with you pacifist views. I am what I am, what are you?
     
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