Cast bullets after the impact

[brewer12345]

After shooting in the woods I poked along the surface of the berm as it is the first time this year I shot there and some more stuff evidently surfaced. We shoot a lot of cast there, a fair bit of muzzleloading round ball, and some centerfire jacketed rifle and handgun. Picking stuff off the berm it was interesting to see the deformation of bullets (or lack thereof):

- The muzzleloader balls that were fired from a rifle were just completely deformed. I assume faster speeds and soft lead was the right combination. The few round balls from cap and ball revolvers were largely undeformed aside from the mauling from the loading lever.

- Not surprisingly, jacketed centerfire rifle bullets were heavily deformed. Jacketed pistol bullets usually had the nose messed up, but were otherwise recognizable.

- Cast rifle bullets were generally mushroomed. Most were fired from my buddy's Garand, so were sort of middling power rifle loads. The cast pistol bullets were the biggest surprise. The smaller bullets were slightly deformed, presumably due to higher velocities. The bigger the pistol bullet, the less deformed. The 200 grain HG 68 clones shot out of my 45 with a lighter target load looked like they could be loaded and shot again despite going through a sheet of plywood and hitting the berm.

The coated bullets had been out in the elements since last summer and the colors were still bright enough that it was easy to spot them. I think I understand now why muzzleloader round balls kill deer so well despite the (on paper) poor ballistics. As for handguns, I think the biggest, heaviest bullet is probably the best for doing damage, as even the lighter, faster bullets don't seem to deform much and aren't big enough diameter to do much. Rifle loads expand regardless of whether they are cast or jacketed.

 

[Bfh_auto]

My cast rifle bullets look like a banana. I too noted that less than 1000 fps doesn't deform cast wheel weights.
357 mag definitely deforms cast wheel weights. But not to the point a rifle velocity does.
"Hard cast" doesn't really deform at under 2000 fps in my experience. But it does leave a wicked hole if it has a large metplat.

 

[brewer12345]

My cast rifle bullets look like a banana. I too noted that less than 1000 fps doesn't deform cast wheel weights.
357 mag definitely deforms cast wheel weights. But not to the point a rifle velocity does.
"Hard cast" doesn't really deform at under 2000 fps in my experience. But it does leave a wicked hole if it has a large metplat.

I generally don't cast anything harder than wheelwright alloy unless I have a very specific reason to do so.

 

[Shak3s1977]

Here's is a closeup of some of our range scrap. A mixture of cast and jacketed bullets shot into a round hay bale. I pulled a couple hundred pounds of lead from that bale.



The best part was that we shot a lot of store bought bullets at first. Then I recovered the lead and started casting and powder coating for us. I then recovered those bullets and have recasted them again. Here are some recovered 357mag bullets I made and recovered. Talk about saving money lol.

 

[lightman]

After shooting in the woods I poked along the surface of the berm as it is the first time this year I shot there and some more stuff evidently surfaced. We shoot a lot of cast there, a fair bit of muzzleloading round ball, and some centerfire jacketed rifle and handgun. Picking stuff off the berm it was interesting to see the deformation of bullets (or lack thereof):

- The muzzleloader balls that were fired from a rifle were just completely deformed. I assume faster speeds and soft lead was the right combination. The few round balls from cap and ball revolvers were largely undeformed aside from the mauling from the loading lever.

- Not surprisingly, jacketed centerfire rifle bullets were heavily deformed. Jacketed pistol bullets usually had the nose messed up, but were otherwise recognizable.

- Cast rifle bullets were generally mushroomed. Most were fired from my buddy's Garand, so were sort of middling power rifle loads. The cast pistol bullets were the biggest surprise. The smaller bullets were slightly deformed, presumably due to higher velocities. The bigger the pistol bullet, the less deformed. The 200 grain HG 68 clones shot out of my 45 with a lighter target load looked like they could be loaded and shot again despite going through a sheet of plywood and hitting the berm.

The coated bullets had been out in the elements since last summer and the colors were still bright enough that it was easy to spot them. I think I understand now why muzzleloader round balls kill deer so well despite the (on paper) poor ballistics. As for handguns, I think the biggest, heaviest bullet is probably the best for doing damage, as even the lighter, faster bullets don't seem to deform much and aren't big enough diameter to do much. Rifle loads expand regardless of whether they are cast or jacketed.

This is pretty much my experience too. I was always fascinated by the rifling on the nearly perfect 45 jacketed bullets that I found.

 

[mdi]

It seems these days cast bullets are much harder than necessary. I believe newer cast bullet shooters were lead to believe "Harder is better" and commercial casters started giving them what they thought they needed. I have been casting and shooting for all my handgun cartridges using no harder than Lyman #2 clone alloy (BHN 15) and most often my "Mystery Metal" alloy of a mix of WW, scrap and range lead running between 10 and 12 BHN (My 45 ACP 200 gr SWC clones flatten out some in the hard dirt around the local "range".). None of my cast act like jacketed and all will deform to some extent, depending on target and velocity. I would bet the handgun bullets the OP retrieved were "hard cast" (BHM 18?)...

 

[AJC1]

It seems these days cast bullets are much harder than necessary. I believe newer cast bullet shooters were lead tom believe "Harder is better" and commercial casters started giving them what they thought they needed. I have been casting and shooting for all my handgun cartridges using no harder than Lyman #2 clone alloy (BHN 15) and most often my "Mystery Metal" alloy of a mix of WW, scrap and range lead running between 10 and 12 BHN (My 45 ACP 200 gr SWC clones flatten out some in the hard dirt around the local "range". None of my cast act like jacketed and all will deform to some extent, depending on target and velocity. I would bet the handgun bullets the OP retrieved were "hard cast" (BHM 18?)...

I agree completely. I go even softer with my normal bullets are high nine low ten bhn, and my 357 mag bullets are only 12bhn. I shoot in an indoor range so I don't get to see the aftermath.

 

[brewer12345]

It seems these days cast bullets are much harder than necessary. I believe newer cast bullet shooters were lead tom believe "Harder is better" and commercial casters started giving them what they thought they needed. I have been casting and shooting for all my handgun cartridges using no harder than Lyman #2 clone alloy (BHN 15) and most often my "Mystery Metal" alloy of a mix of WW, scrap and range lead running between 10 and 12 BHN (My 45 ACP 200 gr SWC clones flatten out some in the hard dirt around the local "range". None of my cast act like jacketed and all will deform to some extent, depending on target and velocity. I would bet the handgun bullets the OP retrieved were "hard cast" (BHM 18?)...

I cast the hg 68 clones mostly out of range scrap, which is typically 10 to 12 bhn. They weren't launched real fast, and the berm is sandy.

 

[Bearded Phil]

Here's is a closeup of some of our range scrap. A mixture of cast and jacketed bullets shot into a round hay bale. I pulled a couple hundred pounds of lead from that bale.View attachment 1072762

View attachment 1072763

The best part was that we shot a lot of store bought bullets at first. Then I recovered the lead and started casting and powder coating for us. I then recovered those bullets and have recasted them again. Here are some recovered 357mag bullets I made and recovered. Talk about saving money lol.
View attachment 1072764

When you remelt the recovered coated bullets what happens to the coating, does it just burn up? Any interference with the metallurgy of the recovered lead?

 

[brewer12345]

When you remelt the recovered coated bullets what happens to the coating, does it just burn up? Any interference with the metallurgy of the recovered lead?

Coatings burn up, lighter metals like jacket material and gas checks float to the top.

 

[Bearded Phil]

Coatings burn up, lighter metals like jacket material and gas checks float to the top.

Very cool, do you ladle out the copper and make them into ingots or is there really not enough overall for it to be worthwhile?

 

[brewer12345]

Very cool, do you ladle out the copper and make them into ingots or is there really not enough overall for it to be worthwhile?

Some people recover them and sell them as scrap. I just skim them and toss. It takes way higher temps to melt copper/brass than lead, so I doubt anyone bothers.

 

[Shak3s1977]

When you remelt the recovered coated bullets what happens to the coating, does it just burn up? Any interference with the metallurgy of the recovered lead?

Like brewer12345 mentioned, the coating burns off and like him I also just toss the jackets.

 

[Scooter22]

Good thread. I pretty much use old WWs with the metal clips. It,s still cool to see the metal clips float to the top.

 

[mdi]

Very cool, do you ladle out the copper and make them into ingots or is there really not enough overall for it to be worthwhile?

Slag (the junk, jackets, dirt etc., that floats when scrap is melted) is either discarded or saved to be "refined" later. Removed during "smelting" with a slotted spoon in a dedicated cleaning/smelting pot. If there is much lead in the slag, sometimes it's sorta worth the effort to reclaim the alloy out of the junk (but not in your casting pot)...

 

[buck460XVR]

It seems these days cast bullets are much harder than necessary.

I think many manufacturers of cast bullets cast them harder than necessary, to keep them from getting deformed during shipping.