Casting journey (wheel weights et al) .

[BigMacMI]

I have started to see a source for some wheel weights locally (Auto and tire store that an old friend owns). I was able to get a 3 gallon bucket of WW from him. After separating out Zn and Fe, I ended up with 45# of WW. Clip on and stick on.

I was intending to melt all of the clip on separate from the stick on, as the SO apparently are much softer. I figured that I could always mix them in later if I decided to do that. Step one is making ingots. If nothing else, I figure I could trade them to someone to have them cast me a few, and they keep some raw material.

I intend to load for 9mm and possibly 380. The 9mm would be great if I could work them up to make Minor (1050-1100fps). I am reading as much as I can (lots on castboolits forum).

I intend to powder coat. I will use some of the SO weights to make a slug to slug my 9mm guns.

My main question is...

Should I indeed melt these 2 sources of lead separately?


I am searching for max velocities people have pushed WW without huge problems on the net. I know I may have to experiment with leading, but any additional insights you may have come upon would be great to hear.

Interested to see how this journey unfolds. I think my first purchase will be the 6 bullet mold and try a few ladled from a cast iron pot or something to see how it all works

 

[Catpop]

I don't know but I just smelted them separately last Sunday for the same reasons mentioned, hardness.
Haven't checked for hardness yet though.
I do know you better do the stickons downwind outside as the smoke and smell is terrible!

 

[jeeptim]

I have just starts casting myself.
If you intend to trade keep as is.
Wheel weights are highly sought after.
Coww make very good bullets. Stick on are very near pure lead.
Try the fellas at castboolits very nice people with tons of good info

 

[dgod]

I would HIGHLY recommend the 10# pot over the Pot & Ladle. SO much easier. I have a 10# and a 5#, I use both. My Hollow Point Molds won't work with the 5#. I think the Ladle and the 6 Hole mold will be tough. I place the mold on top of the Pot while heating the lead to operating temp, causes the mold to be ready a lot faster.

 

[BigMacMI]

I am planning on the pencil method. to at least get a ballpark. All I need to do is get the 9mm running...

Catpop. Are you early in the process as well? We can be newbies together

 

[BigMacMI]

I would HIGHLY recommend the 10# pot over the Pot & Ladle. SO much easier. I have a 10# and a 5#, I use both. My Hollow Point Molds won't work with the 5#. I think the Ladle and the 6 Hole mold will be tough. I place the mold on top of the Pot while heating the lead to operating temp, causes the mold to be ready a lot faster.

Thank you for that information! I imagine in the long run that is where I will end. Cant argue with success, and lots of people are running them that way!

Now the quest for lead sources. I don't want to dry my one source too fast. Few tire shops in town I may run into with a $20 in hand and see what they'll do. I figure even my 45# that I have now, after loss from clip weight and waste should give me quite a few bullets at 7000 grains per pound (plan to cast 124/5)

 

[clearcut]

I smelt mine separately as well ,h2o drop seems to be plenty hard with WW you can go pretty soft if you powder coat with no leading. When I'm smelting I use a stainless steel pot and cast with a Lee bottom dripper . You may want to get a sizer to size after you powder coat. Gas checked and powder coated I push rifle over 2500 fps with no lead issues.You will love or hate casting.Don't slack on the safety gear ! Smoke and heat your mold to save some time and frustration.

CC

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I have started to see a source for some wheel weights locally (Auto and tire store that an old friend owns). I was able to get a 3 gallon bucket of WW from him. After separating out Zn and Fe, I ended up with 45# of WW. Clip on and stick on.

I was intending to melt all of the clip on separate from the stick on, as the SO apparently are much softer. I figured that I could always mix them in later if I decided to do that. Step one is making ingots. If nothing else, I figure I could trade them to someone to have them cast me a few, and they keep some raw material.

I intend to load for 9mm and possibly 380. The 9mm would be great if I could work them up to make Minor (1050-1100fps). I am reading as much as I can (lots on castboolits forum).

I intend to powder coat. I will use some of the SO weights to make a slug to slug my 9mm guns.

My main question is...

Should I indeed melt these 2 sources of lead separately?


I am searching for max velocities people have pushed WW without huge problems on the net. I know I may have to experiment with leading, but any additional insights you may have come upon would be great to hear.

Interested to see how this journey unfolds. I think my first purchase will be the 6 bullet mold and try a few ladled from a cast iron pot or something to see how it all works

If you have a small amount of SOWW you can blend them in if you plan on coating them and shooting them in 9mm and .380 with no problems. I have some soft 8bhn lead That I cast in 9mm and shoot with no problems. However I'm not sure how the softer lead and coating react together as far as real decent accuracy. That's something I have been working to find.

An awesome source for bullet casting hardness, mixtures, COWW and other alloys and magnum velocities at LASC website. This page has a lot of what you were asking about http://www.lasc.us/castbulletnotes.htm

 

[clearcut]

The Cast boolits forum is another good site for info.
CC

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Note that COWW and their wide range of BHN capabilities HERE...
Common Bullet Alloy Hardness

Alloy BHN
Lead


5
WW (stick on) 6
Tin 7
1 to 40 tin lead 8
1 to 30 tin lead 9
1 to 20 tin lead 10
1 to 10 tin lead 11
WW (clip on) 12
Lead Shot* 13
Lyman # 2 15
Water quenched WW 18
Linotype 18 - 19
Monotype 25 - 27
Oven heat treated WW 30 - 32
Antimony 50

Air cooled =12 BHN Water Dropped=18BHN And Oven heat treated 30 BHN Cover about anything you need to load.

And for Chamber pressure to BHN needed here...
Approximate "Maximum" Chamber Pressure For Lead Alloys (PSI)

Plumbers lead, stick on WW 13,000 - (Black Powder Only)
Wheel weights / clip-on
25,000 - Non-Magnum handgun
loads, Rifles to 1,900 fps
Lyman # 2 (alloy varies in

Lyman cast bullet books)


35,000 - Magnum handgun &
rifles to 2,000 fps
Quench-cast WW (dropped

from mould into cool water)


48,000 - Magnum handgun
& rifles to 2,200 fps
Oven heat treated WW
55,000 - Jacketed velocities in handguns
and rifles with quality bore & balanced load

 

[USSR]

Should I indeed melt these 2 sources of lead separately?

Definitely. Totally different hardness and you want to be able to create your alloy with blends of known hardness lead. Suggest you look for some solder, as you will need to add some tin to your alloy.

I am searching for max velocities people have pushed WW without huge problems on the net. I know I may have to experiment with leading, but any additional insights you may have come upon would be great to hear.

Leading is caused primarily by undersized bullets and/or an improper lube. With the .380 and 9mm, you will have no problem using clip-on wheel weights as your lead source.

 

[BigMacMI]

Wow, great information shared here! I have been lurking CastBoolits. I am thinking I just start to collect some factory or pulled stuff for my 223 and keep the casting for the handguns. I am excited to start this process!

FortuneCookie on Youtube has been a great resource in addition to the forum

 

[Cannibul]

I just started casting bullets about a month ago. I've been casting lead for fishing for decades.

Separate your hard and soft lead. Don't smelt in your melting pot. For pouring I highly suggest getting a bottom pour pot. Lee moulds work quite well when you're first starting out. Skip powder coating and go directly to Hi-Tek, you'll thank me later for that. COWW bullets can be pushed a lot faster than your 9mm is capable of....if they are sized correctly and you use Hi-Tek.

You won't be able to keep a six cavity mold hot enough ladle pouring. You'll get frustrated real quick. If you're set on ladle pouring get a two cavity mould.

As far as sizing. Skip the Lee push through sizing die. They're pretty much crap and are often not correct. Go right to a NOE push through sizing die. It's a bit more money but the bushings are right on. I cast for multiple calibers and the NOE saves me a bunch of money since all I need for additional calibers is a bushing and push rod.

If you're in the Dallas TX area you're welcome to come on over to my place and try my equipment.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Skip powder coating and go directly to Hi-Tek, you'll thank me later for that. COWW bullets can be pushed a lot faster than your 9mm is capable of....if they are sized correctly and you use Hi-Tek.

Why skip powder coated bullets?

 

[BigMacMI]

If you're in the Dallas TX area you're welcome to come on over to my place and try my equipment.

My sis is in Dallas with my brother in law who is in marine corps. If i can get down there to visit someday. best believe I will bring my guns

 

[Cannibul]

Why skip powder coated bullets?

Because Hi-Tek is better. Less mess, less work, better coverage.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Because Hi-Tek is better. Less mess, less work, better coverage.

Actually powder coating is a much faster 1 coat and 1 bake process with a good coat using the right powder. Hi-Tek is just a brand of powder coat mixed with a thinning liquid. It doesn't have special abilities that powder coat doesn't have as far as performance.

Powder coated bullets have done everything that Hi-Tek has in terms of caliber and velocity limits too. In fact people have (myself included ) applied wet powder coat . Almost everyone that has done so went to a dry method whether it's tumbled or ESPC with a gun. I've coated upwards of 25,000 using the dry tumble method (DT) simply because it was the easiest, fastest, and cheapest (combined) way to coat my bullets over Wet tumbling, Hi-Tek, and ESPC gun.

Most people are also using better powder coats than what they were using back when the powder coating took off (myself included) and the Harbor Freight is the worst to work with if your dry tumbling FME and was the most common at one time. You basically have a few colors of it that will build up enough static charge to tumble and coverage depends on a lot of things such as humidity and materials used like the right color plastic bb's and type of plastic tub. People even went to dedicating a tumbler to do all the work of tumbling (some still do).

There's more than a few brands of powder coat out there now that require little tumbling and no plastic bb's. I tumble a batch in 30 seconds using a few of them and can prep more bullets than what my 2 toaster ovens can bake. I even have time to size them if I choose and make a pot of coffee in between.

When it comes to cleanup it's really not an issue if you just use the proper methods and tools. The only clean up I have is to wash the powder coat off of my separator and dry it (really could put a plastic bag over it but I don't) unless I do the tumbling part of the process indoors and get a little powder on the floor. In that case I just vacuum it up. If someone has a mess they are doing something very wrong and just a few minutes on Castboolits website in the coatings and alternative section can solve that. Those guys (like me) have been doing it since it first took off. Speaking of mess what happens if someone does Hi-tek or Wet Tumble (WTPC) indoors vs DTPC and has an oops moment?

There's a lot of information floating on the internet and unfortunately much of it is not so true or very accurate. I'm putting my experience out there as well as the experiences of others like me in hopes that people look before they leap.

Edit to add: tit's not advisable to wet coat indoors.

 

[Cannibul]

Hi-Tek isn't a powder paint. I use the dry powder and mix it with acetone.

 

[BigMacMI]

I am going to slug my barrel this week. I would like to use a 124gr bullet. I am hoping to find something I don't have to size. Just cast, coat and load. Assuming my barrel slugs correctly, I am gathering from reading that if I drop a bullet at .356, adding the PC would really make it more in the .357/8 range. I had seen a mold for .358 in 124grain, but I am thinking that may pose problem after adding the coat for standard 9mm.

However SAAMI suggests can be from .3555 to .3585 if I read correctly

 

[BigMacMI]

Well, got my first few pounds of WW melted down and cast into more manageable size.

Harbor Freight Dutch Oven $30
Harbor Freight Weed Torch $30
Bunch of cinder blocks - already had
Misc utensils/ladels/spoon - $0.75 Goodwill
Churro Maker - $7.99 Goodwill
Leather gloves - had
Face shield $3.99 HF

Deconstructed the sandwich maker style Churro maker. Made some nice ~1/2-3/4# ingot molds. I was not able to do all of my WW because it was getting hard to scoop the liquid from the bottom of the pot, so I left a starter for the next time, but I would imagine I got about 10# worth cast, with another bit in the pot, and have about 8-10# of stick on weights to do separate. Bucket was 45# when I started, so will be able to get the final tally in time. I know I have at least 1 more 5g bucket of WW coming my way, and have a line out on some pure lead cores

Exciting afternoon doing this for the first time

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Well, got my first few pounds of WW melted down and cast into more manageable size.

Harbor Freight Dutch Oven $30
Harbor Freight Weed Torch $30
Bunch of cinder blocks - already had
Misc utensils/ladels/spoon - $0.75 Goodwill
Churro Maker - $7.99 Goodwill
Leather gloves - had
Face shield $3.99 HF

Deconstructed the sandwich maker style Churro maker. Made some nice ~1/2-3/4# ingot molds. I was not able to do all of my WW because it was getting hard to scoop the liquid from the bottom of the pot, so I left a starter for the next time, but I would imagine I got about 10# worth cast, with another bit in the pot, and have about 8-10# of stick on weights to do separate. Bucket was 45# when I started, so will be able to get the final tally in time. I know I have at least 1 more 5g bucket of WW coming my way, and have a line out on some pure lead cores

Exciting afternoon doing this for the first time

Sounds like you faired pretty good. What did you use for flux? My first batch of ingots came in at 50lb and pounded out another 350lb's over the week following. Smelting was the easy thing for me compared to casting all those bullets. Found that candle wax works okay for flux.

I also found it easier to not sort the zinc and steel out as keeping temps right they don't melt. I scoop them out with a slotted spoon with the steel clips from the COWW's. IT all comes out with the dross. Just getting that lead good and clean in the smelting process makes casting much easier that's why I flux twice.

Saw dust makes a great Flux. Just make sure its dry. If you need a source for saw dust usually Lowes or Home depot will give you all you need. Remember not to scrape the film off the top that looks like silver and moves around when you stir. That's the tin in the mix. Fluxing with sawdust also helps return the tin to the mix and separate the slag.

 

[BigMacMI]

I didn't flux. I had seen some stuff (including FortuneCookie45) suggesting that all of the junk in the WW would act as a flux (oil, dirty crap etc). I did clean off dross, and found as I went a new film covering the top. I guess I should have not scooped that off. I was going for that mirror finish.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I busted out another 50 lbs.of WW today. Had to finish my smelting before casting everything up. Started with 80 lbs. and this batch was crappy. Got 5 pounds of SOWW set aside and 45 pounds of COWW ingots. Since these were free its hard to complain. That 30 lbs. Of crap amounted to half the volume or better.