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Cat in Tree. Phx Officer "flashes" weapon to defend property?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by .45&TKD, Dec 30, 2008.

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  1. .45&TKD

    .45&TKD Member

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    http://www.abc15.com/content/news/phoenixmetro/story/Phoenix-officer-forbids-neighbor-to-get-cat-PD/uSDXo0vALEiuKVsvSvFUfA.cspx

    I think if a non-LEO in Phoenix drew their weapon to defend their property perimeter for any reason other than arson, there would be hell to pay. I guess some animals are more equal than others.
     
  2. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    So what's the legal question here or is this just a "idiot with a gun" story?
     
  3. Treo

    Treo member

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    How is this gun related?
    How is it Legal related?
    How long before it gets locked?
     
  4. .45&TKD

    .45&TKD Member

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    Lock it if you want.

    As a AZ CCW holder I was taught that in this state you are not allowed to used deadly force to defend your property except in the case of arson. I thought that it was interesting that the Phoenix PD was quoting the opposite to what the law is, defending one of their own.

    Displaying or "flashing" or drawing a weapon because someone "steps" on your property is overkill and would normally be considered aggravated assault if a non-LEO were to do that.
     
  5. da3394

    da3394 Member

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    Sounds like an idiot brandishing a firearm.
     
  6. expvideo

    expvideo Member

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    Sounds to me like the "victim" here was the only one committing a crime. He was trespassing on the officer's property after he had been told not to. I have a feeling from the rest of this story that our poor victim may be exagerating the whole "flashing a gun" part of the story. In fact, he tries so hard to make his trespassing look reasonable, and the cop's actions look unreasonable, that I would bet you a donut that "flashing a gun" meant that the cop had a gun in his holster and a badge clipped onto his belt, while in plain clothes.
     
  7. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    Reading is fundamental.
    It was two volunteers who the cop went off on, not the neighbor.
     
  8. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    Seems to me that the officer has every right to tell the guy and the "rescuers" to bug off. He's perfectly justified in worrying about insurance and injuries, and if they don't like that, tough.

    And just because the rescuers "figured" that they were OK to try to access the cat with a ladder that was footed on public property, it was still leaning against the officer's back wall. That's not public property.

    At that point, these people had been told numerous times to stay off his property, yet they continued to try to access the property anyway. I'd pull a gun too.
     
  9. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    I think the argument here isn't whether its reasonable to draw a weapon to defend your property (and its not clear to me the officer was pointing at anyone), the argument here is whether a non-LEO type person were to do the same thing as the officer would they be in trouble?
     
  10. rondog

    rondog Member

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    It's a cat. Cats go UP trees. Cats go DOWN trees. Cats hunt birds in trees. Cats don't get STUCK in trees. ***.
     
  11. Thin Black Line

    Thin Black Line Member

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    The problem here isn't a gun...it's trees in Phoenix.
     
  12. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    "the argument here is whether a non-LEO type person were to do the same thing as the officer would they be in trouble?"

    not in texas
     
  13. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    So the point is that AZ allows use of a firearm to defend property against arson, but there's a report in the story that the resident "flashed" a firearm while telling trespassers to get off his property. It didn't say that he shot them nor did it even say that he actually brandished a firearm. The phrase used was "flashed his gun and his badge". It doesn't say if he took it out of the holster or if he had it in his hand. It could have just as easily meant that he had the weapon holstered on his belt with his badge and made it obvious that he had both.

    It's a news story without a clear enough picture of whether any law, except trespass, was broken. If the home owner had shot the trespassers there would be a legal question to discuss. If the homeowner had brandished the weapon there would be a legal question to discuss. The story gives us enough information to know the former didn't take place, but not enough to tell if the latter actually occurred.
     
  14. .45&TKD

    .45&TKD Member

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    The point is AZ is not Texas. We don't have the right to defend property here except in the case of arson. The police said that he had the right to defend his property, which is not only incorrect but suggests that he did more than come out open carrying with a badge.

    To me, this guy sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
     
  15. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    No, this is just the police department sticking up for their own. Had it been anyone else, he'd have been arrested for recklessly brandishing a firearm. This cop needs to be fired.
     
  16. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    It seems to be a slow day on THR.

    Lock-time should be almost instantaneous.
     
  17. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    You've obviously never been the owner of an otherwise-indoor cat that suddenly decided to "explore" the great outdoors and bit off a little more than it could chew. ;)
     
  18. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    As I before stated, it's still illegal to brandish a firearm in Arizona. The police officer broke the law, plain and simple.
     
  19. withdrawn34

    withdrawn34 Member.

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    * His liability concerns were completely justified, and he did everything he could.
    * If the other guys came on the property without telling him first, that's invasion of property and there's no way he knew WHO they were. Although one shouldn't go outside to meet the intruder, his response is still understandable.
     
  20. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    If he had a liability concern, all he had to do was take 5 minutes and write up a contract releasing him and have all present parties sign it. Fact is, he was just being a jerk. He was power tripping on the badge.
     
  21. Treo

    Treo member

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    I'm Going To Sleep Now

    Yaaaaawwwwwwnnnnn ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
     
  22. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    +++++++1 Treo!!
     
  23. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    If he had a liability concern, all he had to do was take 5 minutes and write up a contract releasing him and have all present parties sign it. Fact is, he was just being a jerk. He was power tripping on the badge


    why do you imagine he has to do that?


    and what kinda badge do the citizens for strays folks carry? that allow em to go on folks property
     
  24. rscalzo

    rscalzo Member

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    While on your own property. Laws must be really screwed up there.

    He didn't want them on his property. Why should he have to do any such thing? They were told to stay off the property. Anything less is a Trespass charge. Besides, the contract wouldn't be worth the paper it was printed on.

    The "flashing" comment came from a somewhat "biased" witness.
     
  25. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    You can DRAW a firearm as necessary, but to run out waving it around just because someone is in your yard is another matter. There's nothing screwed out about it. It's common sense.
     
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