Cautious Optimism - Democrats Starting To Get It?

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camslam

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Didn't see this posted. I'm willing to give credit where credit is due.

Let's hope this trend of common sense continues with a new breed of Democrats being elected. Unfortunately that old hag Feinstein is still "gunning" (pun intended) for our rights. Stay vigilant people, it is only going to get tougher.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GUN_RIGHTS?SITE=SCCHA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Democrats show little appetite for gun control

By JIM ABRAMS
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The National Rifle Association warned in a campaign ad that if Barack Obama were elected president he would try to take away hunters' guns and ammo. But with pro-gun Democrats a powerful force in Congress, it's already pretty clear there will be no messing with Americans' right to bear arms.

Twenty-two Democrats, including Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, joined Republicans last week in a Senate vote to negate the District of Columbia's tough gun registration requirements and overturn its ban on rapid-fire semiautomatic weapons. More than 80 House Democrats voted for a similar measure last year.

"It was a pleasant surprise, but it's not a huge surprise that elected officials are listening to their constituents," said Chris W. Cox, the NRA's chief lobbyist.

It's not certain that the gun measure, attached to a bill on D.C. voting rights, will be a part of the final version of that bill. House plans to take up the voting rights bill this week were postponed Tuesday as Democratic leaders struggled over how to handle the gun issue.

But with six of 11 Democratic Senate freshmen - from pro-gun states such as Alaska, Colorado, New Mexico and Virginia - voting for the proposal last week, it was a clear sign of where Congress is heading on gun issues.

"There has been a shift in thinking among Democrats in the last six to eight years, away from old ideas about gun control and limiting access to guns and toward ideas about how you actually reduce gun crime," said Matt Bennett of Third Way, a group of moderate Democrats active on gun control issues.

That shift has been frustrating for lawmakers who have long decried the NRA's ability to block gun control legislation.

"We do not debate guns around here much anymore," said the Senate's no. 2 Democrat, Dick Durbin of Illinois, during debate on the D.C. gun amendment. "Basically, we reached a point where there are not many people who will stick their political necks out to vote for sensible gun control - too big a hassle."

A case in point is new Democrat Kirsten Gillibrand, a steadfast gun rights advocate when she represented a pro-gun, Republican-leaning district in upstate New York. Her appointment to succeed Hillary Clinton as New York's junior senator drew protests from gun-control Democrats, but after she voted against the D.C. gun amendment Republicans accused her of abandoning her principles for political expediency.

Gillibrand's spokesman, Matt Canter, said the senator supports Second Amendment rights. But she also believes that local governments have the right to put legitimate limits on firearms and that law enforcement must have the tools to protect the public from gun violence, he said.

A major turning point came last June, when the Supreme Court, in a 5-4 vote overturning D.C.'s ban on handgun possession, confirmed that the Second Amendment gives private citizens the right to bear arms.

Gun control advocates were consoled that the decision also specifies that gun rights are not open-ended, that government can impose some restrictions in the public interest.

With the court ruling, the argument that gun control will lead to gun bans no longer applies, said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "The slippery slope doesn't go anywhere anymore, and I think people realize that."

For the time being, any gun-related legislation will be incremental. Helmke's group is urging the Obama administration to overturn a rule imposed in the last days of the Bush administration allowing people to carry concealed, loaded weapons in most national parks.

There will also be a push to repeal the so-called Tiahrt amendment, named after Rep. Todd Tiahrt, R-Kan., that limits the authority of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to disclose gun-trace data to the public and requires that certain records submitted to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System be destroyed after 24 hours.

Both the Third Way's Bennett and Helmke said it may take another major gun crime, like the shootings at Columbine High School or Virginia Tech, to get Congress to act on more ambitious gun control initiatives.

Those include overturning a law enacted in 2005 that denies gun crime victims the right to sue firearms manufacturers and dealers for damages.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said she plans to push legislation to reinstate a federal ban on some assault weapons that became law during the Clinton administration in 1994 but expired under the Bush administration in 2004. Another long-term goal is requiring that all gun shows conduct background checks before selling firearms.

The NRA's Cox said his group is gearing up to fight a new assault weapons ban, noting that Obama supports one and that Attorney General Eric Holder recently linked the proliferation of military-style weapons to the violence along the Mexican border. "It's laughable if it wasn't so serious to suggest that diminishing the Second Amendment will positively impact the situation down in Mexico," Cox said.
 
I've very cautious. I hope you're right-- but I suspect job retention is a greater motive.


-- John
 
Keep pushing elected representatives on both side of the aisle to restore our 2A rights and oppose any new attempts to pass bogus legislation restricting our RKBA.

Don't loose sight of the fact that we're engaged in both a culture and political struggle so we have to win more of the public to our side as well as make politicians understand that we're no longer the boogyman they can build careers on by frightening their constituents.
 
The only reason why Democrats are giving us the appearance that they're not as interested in banning our guns as they used to be is that the reason they've always wanted to ban our guns is because they see them as an impediment to their establishment of a Socialist Police State here in the US ... well they seem to be getting that WITHOUT a gun ban.

Eventually they'll come around to banning again (especially if one of theirs is cut down by someone with a gun).
 
IMO, they've got bigger fish to fry. Gun control has temporarily been
placed on the back burner. They're way too busy engaged in the WOC - War On Capitalism.
 
This comes a lot closer to explaining their intentions:

Both the Third Way's Bennett and Helmke said it may take another major gun crime, like the shootings at Columbine High School or Virginia Tech, to get Congress to act on more ambitious gun control initiatives.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said she plans to push legislation to reinstate a federal ban on some assault weapons that became law during the Clinton administration in 1994 but expired under the Bush administration in 2004. Another long-term goal is requiring that all gun shows conduct background checks before selling firearms.

Those include overturning a law enacted in 2005 that denies gun crime victims the right to sue firearms manufacturers and dealers for damages.

Which is an outright lie!

Right now the Democrats and other gun control advocates in Congress have their hands full with economic problems and other issues that are more important to them. They also know that given this country's other problems public support for additional gun laws is very weak. But just as soon as something happens to change the public's attitude and concern you can bet that all of the "reasonable" legislation will come out from under wraps.

All they need is the right time and the right opportunity. :banghead:
 
To Most Democrats GUN RIGHTS means You can own a gun to hunt.
If ther friends at PETA and ALF have a say Hunting will go away too!
 
Let's hope this trend of common sense continues with a new breed of Democrats being elected.

They are a new breed of Democrats alright; that's why I'm so frightened. These people are socialists, pure and simple, and I've never known any socialists who supported arming the populace they were trying to control.
 
We need to stop being afraid to admit victory.

1) A recent Supreme Court decision upholding the right to keep and bear arms.

2) Congress votes to limit the District of Columbia's attempts to roll back that decision.

3) State legislatures across the country institute concealed carry and other laws expaning gun rights.

We need to stop looking for nefarious motives behind the good things that happen and focus our efforts on expanding our rights in places they are still under attack.

That's my two cents.
 
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The core philosophy of the Democratic Party is communitarianism. Self-defense is anathema to communitarianism. ‘Pro-gun’ Democrats are either too stupid to understand their party’s touchstones…or lying.
 
They remember the 1994 mid terms, they will not doing anything until they are sure they have the votes.

Right now they do not have the votes for an AWB part II, however that could change.

Don't think for a secound holders comments last week were made by mistake.
 
I say keep pressing your (D) Congressmen. If they see that large numbers of their constituency is saying "NO!" to gun-bans, they will respond. Remember, as much as some would love to ban guns, they love even more staying in office, and love the least making calls that will cost them their job.

Also, what LibShooter said. The old generation back in the mid 80's to the mid 90's lost us our right to bear arms, now us young folks are fighting and succeeding in fixing their lapse of judgment.
 
To Most Democrats GUN RIGHTS means You can own a gun to hunt.

‘Pro-gun’ Democrats are either too stupid to understand their party’s touchstones…or lying.

I'm a pro-gun Democrat who hunts and shoots for fun. I own hunting guns, SD guns, and military guns.

I'm neither stupid nor a liar. Rather, I am an intelligent, highly educated person, an attorney, who defends ALL of your constitutional rights for a living.

Generalization about who a gun owner should or must be, and the belief that gun ownership and gun rights advocacy are only compatible with a particular socio-political worldview are tired notions. They are the major handicaps of the gun rights movement, particularly when it comes to helping anti-gun people "see the light" as it were.

I've spent most my life between two states, both largely Democratic and both largely pro-gun. It won't hurt you to accept the fact that there are as many Democratic gun owners as Republican and there are even some pro-gun Democrats (GASP!) holding elected office in this country.

I would think that the fact that gun rights advocacy transcends party lines would be viewed as a victory, but I guess not. Are you afraid because people with views different from your own are also armed? Or are you disappointed that it's not as easy to pigeonhole people as you thought.

My suggestion: take the high road.
 
Besides, when all this panic buying subsides I'll be able to buy some friggin' primers.
 
I've spent most my life between two states, both largely Democratic and both largely pro-gun. It won't hurt you to accept the fact that there are as many Democratic gun owners as Republican and there are even some pro-gun Democrats (GASP!) holding elected office in this country.

While I would like to believe there are as many Democrats owning guns as Republicans, it isn't likely. I'm hopeful, but when you look at the core of the Democratic base and the counties that elected Barack, including those that went for Gore and Kerry, they are hardly bastions of gun rights, self defense, and advocates of self responsibility. Furthermore, if there are so many gun toting Demo's, why do we not see their party promoting gun rights and protecting the 2nd amendment? Why don't we see LIBERAL, common sense, gun laws in the heavily Democratic areas of this country? If there were really that many Democrats owning guns, either they maintain silence on this issue, or they just don't exist. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

I would think that the fact that gun rights advocacy transcends party lines would be viewed as a victory, but I guess not. Are you afraid because people with views different from your own are also armed? Or are you disappointed that it's not as easy to pigeonhole people as you thought.

Isn't that more or less the point of my mentioning this thread? I'm very hopeful that the Blue Dog Dem's that got elected have the stones to stick to their guns, (pun intended) and oppose the whack job lefties that currently operate and run the Democratic party. Didn't I say in my OP, let's give credit where credit is due?

I think every one of us on The High Road would be thrilled to see more Democrats than Republicans owning and carrying guns, but it isn't a big thing for many Democrats, quite the opposite in fact. Many of them tirelessly work to rid the rest of us of our 2nd amendment rights.

Both Repugnicans and Demoslacks have ruined, are currently ruining, and will continue to ruin our country, bringing it to the brink of bankruptcy, chaos, and disaster. THEY ALL STINK, but maybe a literal handful of Congressman.


But when it comes to gun rights, it is the Dem's that can proudly proclaim these morons that have never met an anti-gun bil they didn't like.

Obama
Durbin
Clinton
Schumer
Gore
Kerry
Lautenberg
Emanuel
Boxer
Feinstein
Kennedy
McCarthy
Conyers
Wexler
Nagin
Daley
Fenty
Bloomberg (hardly a conservative and was a demo before running for mayor)
Holder
Biden
Pelosi
Reid
Waxman


The list reads like a freaking who's who of gun banners.

As I mentioned earlier, I am hopeful that the new Dems that have been elected stick to their guns and are smart enough to leave the guns alone, because the way guns have been flying off the shelves for the last 3 months, I got a sneaking hunch, we the people ain't going to like it if they start horsing around with gun bans again.

I hope that you Dems that elect the new guys keep the pressure on, so they know not to touch this issue with a 10 foot pole.

In the meantime, I will independently and conservatively watch these jack asses ruin what is left of our country in other ways. :cuss::fire::banghead::cuss::fire::banghead:
 
"Basically, we reached a point where there are not many people who will stick their political necks out to vote for sensible gun control - too big a hassle."

Sensible? Really? I think not.

"The slippery slope doesn't go anywhere anymore, and I think people realize that."

Tell that to the British.
 
Some politicians are waking up to reality, some are just playing the political game to get re-elected. Vote wisely and send snail mail letters (they tend to take written letters more seriously) and hopefully more will wake up.
 
Both the Third Way's Bennett and Helmke said it may take another major gun crime, like the shootings at Columbine High School or Virginia Tech, to get Congress to act on more ambitious gun control initiatives.

You can count on one being manufactured in the next couple of years.
 
After seeing some of the comments here, I think the pro-gun Democrats need to realize that no matter how conservitive they are, no matter how pro-gun they are, the Democratic Party at the national level, and at the state level in some states, is controled by the same hard-left socialist-facists that "protested" Vietnam, spit on our returning soldiers, and has wrecked our society over the last 30 or so years.

I know plenty of conservitive Democrats, even here in NY state. Most decent people are "conservitive" supporters of the most radical idea in history: self-government in a republic.

They used to be called "liberals". You may still think of yourself as a clasical liberal, not a "it was good enough for grandpa" conservitive.

Change Happens. Even definitions change.

Playing Republicans against Democrats may keep the Republicans more responsive and honest, but its a dangerous game.

We may not have any choice but to play it, but what we realy need as a long term solution is for all you conservitive pro-gun Democrats to TAKE BACK YOUR PARTY from the nuts... And a few seem to be.

The Bill of Rights is NOT a menu.
 
I've very cautious. I hope you're right-- but I suspect job retention is a greater motive.
I'll put my trust in self-interest over morality nine times out of ten, but it doesn't really matter to me.

I don't care whether you don't rob me because you know it's wrong or because you know I'll shoot you in the head if you try, so long as for whatever reason, you don't do it.
 
It won't hurt you to accept the fact that there are as many Democratic gun owners as Republican and there are even some pro-gun Democrats (GASP!) holding elected office in this country.

If all the polling that occurred around media excitement over Heller is valid, about a third of Democrats own guns, and about two thirds of Republicans do.
 
It won't hurt you to accept the fact that there are as many Democratic gun owners as Republican and there are even some pro-gun Democrats (GASP!) holding elected office in this country.
If this was a thread about rank and file Democrats such as yourself, then yes, you would have a point.

However this is a thread about the Democrat leadership in Washington DC. THOSE folk are rabidly anti gun.

Also, gun control (specifically a new AWB) is part of the Democrat Party's official platform.

I think to assume that Democrats on the national level are overwhelmingly anti gun is not a rash generalization. Yes, there are a couple of "Blue Dog" Democrats on our side (two of which courageously stood up recently to denounce any plan for any new gun control) but just because you are pro-gun and a Democrat doesn't mean gun owners are safe from your party.

Note that I am a Republican that supports drug legalization, so believe me when I say I know how you feel.
 
We need to stop being afraid to admit victory.

You're right; battles have been won. The problem is that the war will probably never, ever end. The losses, even when minimal, sting for a longer time than the glory of victory is able to last. And that's my $0.02.
 
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