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Cc about to be legal in pfz's in michigan!!!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by ezkl2230, Dec 13, 2012.

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  1. ezkl2230

    ezkl2230 Member

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    BREAKING NEWS - SB 59 JUST PASSED THE MI HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES BY A VOTE OF 68 TO 41 WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT!!!

    The bill now goes to Gov. Snyder, who has promised to sign it.

    Beginning in March, with the submission of an application for an exemption to carry concealed in a pistol free zone, 9 hours additional training and more rounds fired, CPL holders will be able to CC in pistol free zones!!! No additional cost for the exemption if the request is submitted at the time of application or renewal, $20 all other times

    The downside - open carry in pistol free zones will no longer be permitted. Gov. Snyder insisted on this as a condition of his signature. We will have to work to get that reinstated.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  2. Clipper

    Clipper Member

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    ... And this POS gives 'no weapons' signs the power of law here, too. This is a step backwards.
     
  3. smalls

    smalls Member

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    They did end up sneaking that in after all?

    Snyder has gone back and forth on this a thousand times. I wouldn't be surprised if he still vetoed it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  4. Clipper

    Clipper Member

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    The CC only snobs would rather have bad legislation than have to OC in PFZs, even if it led to OC being outlawed. After all, can't upset the anti's, can we?
     
  5. TheGloriousTachikoma

    TheGloriousTachikoma Member

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    Well, at least I don't have to worry about finding a holster for the CZ with a retention strap. :(
     
  6. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    Always amazes me how some folks whine when they can't shove their agenda in the face of antis instead of being glad they got more ccw freedoms

    WTH is wrong with you?
     
  7. chris in va

    chris in va Member

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    So what qualifies as a 'pfz'? Schools?
     
  8. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Member

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    By giving no guns signs force of law, and removing a right CPL carriers had (OC in a PFZ), we lost. We won a bit too, but in some respects, we have taken a step backwards.

    In order to CC in a PFZ (and remember, before we could OC in a PFZ with a CPL) we now have to undergo advanced training (not cheap) and pay more for a license (or wait for a renewal). I don't have an additional $300 laying around. So CC'ers lost in the PFZ battle, and we lose in the "No Guns signs' battle.

    And you are asking WTH is wrong with US?

    ETA:
    Chris in VA: Schools, Bars, Hospitals, any public area seating more than 2500 people (i.e. theater, sports arena, etc.), places of worship and I think there are one or two more I'm forgetting, are Pistol Free Zones.

    Prior to this bill, anyone with a CPL could open carry in a PFZ. Now, or rather once the bill goes into effect, unless you have the PFZ exemption checked on your CPL, you cannot carry a gun in any way, shape or form in a PFZ.

    ETA2:
    Any updates on HB5225, getting rid of the Pistol purchase permit and hand gun registry?
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  9. smalls

    smalls Member

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    Pistol Free Zones:
    Schools, hospitals, casinos, bars, entertainment facilities that seat 2500 or more, stadiums and churches.

    I did hear that schools would not be allowed to post signs.
     
  10. ezkl2230

    ezkl2230 Member

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    Yeah. That was decided earlier this year after a young fellow OC'd to his polling place in a public school and almost got arrested for it. They finally determined that he did nothing wrong. Schools wanted to post, but were told they couldn't because they aren't private property.
     
  11. ezkl2230

    ezkl2230 Member

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    Gutted by amendments put forward by the MSP. Still have purchase permits and registries. This is from the NRA-ILA alert today:

     
  12. ezkl2230

    ezkl2230 Member

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    Actually, that has been the case for quite some time. This is what handgunlaw.us has to say (the article was written by an attorney on the board of MCRGO):

     
  13. smalls

    smalls Member

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    Aah, I remember that. That's good, at least.

    So do signs carry the force of law always now, or just PFZ's?
     
  14. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Member

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    The way I'm reading this is everywhere a sign is posted, it has force of law. I'm pretty sure this will encompass PFZ exempt license holders (other than law enforcement).

    Can't say I'm overly excited about this.
     
  15. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Member

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    Eh. So they took the steak and left the gristle. Fantastic.
     
  16. smalls

    smalls Member

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    I can't imagine anyone is. Well, except those anti's.

    Truth is, I've only ever seen one sign. But I've never really looked for them, either. I never had to care. This is seeming less and less like a win.
     
  17. ezkl2230

    ezkl2230 Member

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    Business owners (whose property is considered "private property" - something I dispute), regardless of whether their business was considered a pfz under the law, have had the right to post their property as no carry zones for years. That isn't new under SB 59 or HB 5225 - it actually goes back to 2006, when access to CPL was expanded in Michigan. That's why I have been fighting to get a law passed that I have entitled the Hoven Self Defense Act, named for a Michigan pharmacist who used his legally owned sidearm in violation of Walgreen's "no escalation" policy to drive off two armed robbers who had physically abused store employees; he was fired. My proposed bill states,

    By the way, Bloomberg sank a little money - and misinformation - into Michigan to try to keep these bills from being passed in ANY form; He was the major backer of the MSP amendments. He noted after HB 5225 was passed in its gutted form that this proves that the NRA can't "give marching orders to Lansing." The AP release containing this statement from Bloomie was a complete pack of lies. This is what it said:

    First, the article states that the bill had failed, when, in fact, it had passed and been sent to the House for a concurrence vote (since it had been amended). It was passed late last night.

    Second, HB 5225 simply replaced Michigan's outdated background check system with the federal NICS system - it didn't call for the end of background checks.

    Third, it would have eliminated pistol purchase permits and owner registries, treating pistol purchases the same way long gun purchases are treated.

    I short, it didn't get a single fact right.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  18. fatcat4620

    fatcat4620 Member

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    So you guys have up some rights so you could CC in places where you could only OC before?
     
  19. ezkl2230

    ezkl2230 Member

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    Yes. We can, with additional class time, now cc in a pfz.
     
  20. ezkl2230

    ezkl2230 Member

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    This bill marks the first time in Michigan's history that a limit has been placed on open carry, and I believe it represents a violation of the federal court case Woollard v. Sheridan. The only reason it was limited is because the governor and a handful of people found OC in a pfz objectionable, not because CPL holders openly carrying peacefully in pfz's have caused any problems. That does not meet the legal standard required under Woollard:

    Frankly, I think the NRA, MCRGO, or MOC need to file a suit challenging this limitation. There is ample legal precedent to have that portion of the new law overturned.

    In the meantime, I am still working to get my own bill, the Hoven Self-Defense Act passed. It states,

     
  21. fatcat4620

    fatcat4620 Member

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    Sounds like you went backwards to me.
     
  22. ezkl2230

    ezkl2230 Member

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    With yesterday's events in Connecticut governor Snyder is under intense pressure to veto SB 59 instead of signing it as he promised to do, and he is now questioning the "wisdom" of allowing responsible adults to carry in a school. We need to contact his office immediately with logical, rational explanations to counter act the emotional arguments he is receiving now. The bill may be flawed but it would prevent a Connecticut style event from happening in Michigan by allowing more people to carry in a public school.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
  23. answerguy

    answerguy Member

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    " The bill may be flawed but it would prevent a Connecticut style event from happening in Michigan by allowing more people to carry in a public school."

    That's a rather bold claim. The best I could say is that CC might have been able to limit the carnage.

    Separately; I couldn't imagine open carrying into a school right now. I would expect panic to ensue.
     
  24. 76shuvlinoff

    76shuvlinoff Member

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    In light of recent events Snyder is likely to bury this anyhow. If he does wouldn't OC remain the same?
     
  25. smalls

    smalls Member

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    If he doesn't sign it, it stays the same, because no new law is being signed.

    I think a lot of people just want him to sign it so we can have a "win", no matter how much it negatively affects us, as well as positively affects us.

    I feel that trading allowance of CC in schools (let's be realistic, every other PFZ will post signage) and trading off OC'ing in these places, and signs now holding the weight of the law is NOT a win.
     
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