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CCI Stinger as a defense round

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Guvnor, Jul 24, 2009.

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  1. Guvnor

    Guvnor Member

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    Im trying to decide which .22lr round would be the best for defensive purposes out of my savage rifle. Before anyone gets on me for using a .22 for home defense, this will be a back up weapon.

    Has anyone done any penetration testing with the stinger out of a rifle barrel? From what ive read, out of a rifle they expand and fragment pretty violently and dont penetrate very far. I guess this could be an advantage though because it would minimize overpenetration risk and dump all of its energy into the target.

    But im wondering if its to the point of having too little penetration to be effective.

    I see alot of guys recommend round nose whenever using a .22 for defense, but I would worry about too much penetration with a round nose out of a rifle.

    Any other suggestions?
     
  2. rbernie
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    rbernie Member

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    Will your rifle cycle the Stringers reliably, one hundred percent of the time?
     
  3. Dave Markowitz

    Dave Markowitz Member

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    I would use CCI Mini Mag solids. As you noted, Stingers out of a rifle will fragment and cause shallow wounds. WRT to penetration, even from a rifle Mini Mags are unlikely to overpenetrate on an adult human.
     
  4. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    You should be able to find some good info here.

    http://www.brassfetcher.com/oldindex.html

    OVER penetration with 22lr is an un-issue. If I were to go 22lr, I'd be sorely tempted to use the Aguila Sniper SubSonic 60 grain lead round nose as I get good penetration and a bullet 1/2 again as heavy as the standard 40gr. And, if it happens to tumble/keyhole, so much the better ... bigger hole.
     
  5. robphillips

    robphillips Member

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    I would sure as hell hate to get shot with a 22.
     
  6. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Aguila Sniper SubSonic 60 grain lead round nose

    Some people read "sub sonic" and think "CB cap" (29gr bullet at 700 fps)--Aguila .22 SSS 60gr has a velocity just under the sound barrier--900 to 950 fps--total muzzle energy about the same as a high-velocity 40 gr .22 long rifle or 120 ft/lb. From a 2" autoloading pistol barrel it shoots through 2" pine boards as easily as .22 Stinger and .25 ACP.

    I would recommend testing the .22 SSS in a gun before relying on it. Some autos and manual actions shoot it just fine. Others wont stablize the long 60 gr bullet or have problems ejecting the .22 short case the SSS long bullet is loaded in. I got two pistols and a rifle that love it, and at least one rifle that jams every time (and it's a bolt action, failure to eject). Aguilla SSS priming is as consistent as .22 Stinger: I have not had failure to fire with either, but a lot of failure to fire with cheaper ammo.
     
  7. Kernel

    Kernel Member

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    I'd go with a full 40 gr high velocity round (not a 32, 38 or 36). Like the Winchester Power Point. Lighter bullets don't penitrate as well, and heaver bullets are too slow. I've seen some testing of the 60 gr Aguila, and was not impressed. IMO 40 grain is just right, Goldielocks.
     
  8. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    I would sure as hell hate to get shot with a pellet gun. But I would hate it even more if I had to face a 6' 4", 240 lb home intruder hopped up on meth or some other drug, and all I had was a .22.
     
  9. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Velocitors over Stingers.

    The Velocitor comes out of a rifle at over 1400 fps, but it's still got a 40 grain bullet.

    That's what's in my BUG (which is probably good for 900 fps, not 1400).

    60 grain subsonics are a good idea, but as others have said, make sure they cycle.

    In a lever gun, they'd be great.
     
  10. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Well, yeah.

    The OP said it's for backup only. I'd rather put 5 Velocitors in said home intruder's neck (not that hard with a .22 rifle), than just stand there with my...
     
  11. Lovesbeer99

    Lovesbeer99 Member

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    Why don't you test it and let us know. You can by sheet rock at HomeDepot for under 6.00 and cut it into 20 small pieces and secure some of them together in differnt thicknesses.

    1 ply, 2 ply, 3 ply, etc and see how deep you get a 20 feet, 10 feet, etc.
     
  12. Guvnor

    Guvnor Member

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    I wish I could! But I live in a a dense suburban area so that makes it impossible to do stuff like that. No ranges around here allow that kind of stuff either.

    I envy you guys that live out in the country who can just walk out your back door and shoot!

    Thanks for the suggestions everybody. I might just stick with round nose mini-mags since they always function flawlessly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2009
  13. bad_aim_billy

    bad_aim_billy Member

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    I would go with Aguila Super Maximum IF they cycle reliably. Aguila's quality control isn't exactly stellar.

    It's pretty impressive what a 30 grain HP coming out at 1750 can do to a milk jug filled with water...

    But if you can't test, probably mini-mags would be the logical choice. :)
     
  14. Bill B.

    Bill B. Member

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    Out of all the .22 ammo I have shot over the years I have never had a dud or squib load from a CCI Mini Mag. I haven't had one from the CCI Stingers either for that matter but I have shot a whole heck of a lot more of the Mini Mags!
     
  15. tactikel

    tactikel Member

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    I would suggest penetration over velocity. Most .22s are designed for small game. A solid or hollow point at standard velocity may be a better SD round that a 40gr screamer.
     
  16. RatDrall

    RatDrall Member

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    Stingers are 30 grains.

    Try the Velocitors, which are CCI's high velocity load with a 40 grain bullet.
     
  17. Marlin 45 carbine

    Marlin 45 carbine Member

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    another vote for velocitors.
     
  18. Kernel

    Kernel Member

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    Power Points are about half the price of Velocitors, when bought in bulk. Cheap enough to plink with. Velocitors are nice, King of performance, but just to expensive to shoot, to the point where you need a scoop shovel to clear away the empties.
     
  19. Guvnor

    Guvnor Member

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    Well I did some more searching and found some ballistics data on Stingers if you guys are interested.

    With a 2.4 inch barrel handgun they fail to expand and seem to behave like a round nose. Around 1000fps and penetrated about 11-12 inches. http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs27.htm

    With a 5.5 inch barreled Ruger 22/45 they get up to around 1300 fps...expand nicely but start to fragment a bit, and penetrate about 8-9 inches of ballistics gel. http://www.firearmstactical.com/test_data/22lr/cci22-32stgr-r2245.htm

    This leads me to believe that from a rifle barrel with the round getting up to full speed, the bullet will probably fragment severely. This would probably leave a very serious wound, but im not sure how well it would penetrate.

    Any thoughts?

    I will definitely look for some Velocitors. They seem to be a good compromise between penetration, energy, and expansion. For the time being, ill probably stick with the mini mags.
     
  20. MovedWest

    MovedWest Member

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    I switched from mini-mags to stingers for HD a few months ago when I saw the ballistic information listed in CCI's website. Out of the barrel and up to 50yds the transferred energy of the stingers is more than than the maxi-mags. I figure at the likely HD distance of <20ft I'll do more damage with the stingers.

    That is of course only if my 44magnums, 12ga, and 9mm run out of ammo... :evil:

    If you have a really enormous house or expect a defensive distance of longer than 50yds the mini-mags might be a better choice.

    -MW
     
  21. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    Out of all the .22 ammo I have shot over the years I have never had a dud or squib load from a CCI Mini Mag. I haven't had one from the CCI Stingers either for that matter but I have shot a whole heck of a lot more of the Mini Mags!

    This has been my experience also. CCI Mini Mags are what I load in my Beretta 21 or S&W 61 i sometimes carry as a backup.
     
  22. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    When the hyper-velocity .22's first came out, a few of the guys that buzzed around the gun shop I worked in then(early 80's) did some tests on an M1 Steel helmet. Don't know at what range or what firearm. Anyway, the CCI Stinger and Winchester Expeditor went through one side. The Remington Yellow Jacket went right through both sides.
    "...With a 2.4 inch barrel handgun..." Not enough velocity. Hyper-velocity .22's are made for rifles, not handguns.
     
  23. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

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    Sunray said it right. Try the Yellow Jackets. I used to shoot a lot of 2 liter coke bottles full of water with a 4" Ruger 22 auto. The YJ loads always expanded and were more explosive than stingers.

    Out of a rifle barrel they really expand. Also some 22 autos are not designed for stingers. I believe the marlin model 60 manual says to not use them. The problem is the longer case.

    Some people poo poo the 22 for defense. I am not one of them. Its not my first choice but if its all I have I do not feel unarmed. With the "no recoil" nature of a 22 auto I can unload that 17 round mag in just a couple of seconds and put every round in a 3" circle at 15 yards. I doubt anyone will press an attack very far with a chest full of 22s.
     
  24. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    "...Try the Yellow Jackets..." Yep, but you do have to try a box of each to find the one that shoots the most accurately out of your rifle. Just like any other .22.
    "...a chest full of 22s..." Not something I'd want to rely on.
     
  25. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    what is your action? if semiauto, I would not use stingers or velocitors, they will tear up a semiauto. The absolute fastest, most devestating round in a true 22lr case, is the Aguila interceptor. shoots a 40 grain bullet to almost 1500 fps.
    I shot some at a 4x8 post once, and the blow holes out the backside were stupendously impressive!!! also a nice round would be the cci SGB bullets; they are made to shortly penetrate, then break off into I think 3 big pieces, ouch!
    next i would choose the Aguila sniper 60 grainers, that is a 60 grain 22 bullet, that is a solid lead chunk, very ouchy!!!! but if you have a semi auto, chances are this last one will not work for you, so try it first, to make sure it is reliable.

    I would not put to much worry into penetration for a 22; they are going to penetrate, don't worry about that- the biggest prob is their expansion or fragmentation. most won't do that for jack, so either look at the above, for doing their jobs well, or get something in a nice hollow point. Not that they will expand or fragment a lot, they won't , but they will a little. and all 22 rounds penetrate far better than most peeps give them credit for.
    there is a thread on here, down a page or two, I think , about 22 rounds, and penetration through aluminum plane sheeting.
    Skin and clothes just ain't aluminum sheeting either.

    As far as penetration goes; you want something that yaws or breaks apart, as soon as possible.
    this is the primary reason the russians switched to the 545 round. the 762 base round does not
    start to freak out until about 9 inches of penetration, which is almost all the way through a dude anyway, most of the time. the 545 starts it's yaw, at about 4 inches, and has a much higher kill percentage ratio at all distances out to 300 yds, as compared to a 762 round.
    but the trade off is penetrating semi hard stuff; the 762 will do it with ease.
    Since we are talking about home defense, I am assuming your attacker will not be wearing body armor
    or carrying steel plates in front of them. So a speedy round, with a hollow point, or hollow but covered tip, will do the job just fine here.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2009
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