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CCW Blackpowder

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by huli, Jun 7, 2006.

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  1. huli

    huli Member

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    Is it illegal to carry a ROA loaded without a permit, If the caps are not on the nipples? Thanks :what:
     
  2. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    I have no idea what state you're in, but in Utah that would fall under "carrying a concealed dangerous weapon". Laws vary by state, often greatly.
     
  3. Smokin_Gun

    Smokin_Gun Member

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    Dunno about ROA's they aren't an "Antique Firearm" or a replica as listed under the 2nd ammendment. As far as I know it would e considered a modern 20th Century BP Rev... but with out caps in or near it I couldn't tell ya.
     
  4. dwave

    dwave Member

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    I believe the best thing to do is ask the police or someone like that.
     
  5. ribbonstone

    ribbonstone Member

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    In this location, it's gainst the law (unless you have a permit).

    Does bring up an interresting question..why would you ant to carry a percussion revolver. minus the percussion caps, concealed?
     
  6. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    Depends on state. In PA, cap and ball revolvers are firearms for the purpose of concealed carry, but not firearms for most other purposes.
     
  7. Smokin_Gun

    Smokin_Gun Member

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    Without a cylinder in the Revolver but having a capped loaded cylinder even in the cab of a vehicle. Or Holstered Rev and cylinder in a cylinder pouch is not concidered a loaded firearm, here anyway. Advantange of owning an 1858Remington. Granted one may be delayed if stopped but you can't be arrested for it.
    Don't they make a replacement button for that screw you have to remove on the ROA to remove the cylinder?
    Kinda a grey area indeed though...especially from State to State, Country to County.
     
  8. pohill

    pohill Member

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    SG, I think what covers the ROA is the fact that they use "unconventional ammo", despite the fact that they're not based on any actual pre-1898 firearm. Converting to cartridge changes everything. As far as carrying an uncapped BP revolver...first of all, you got the gun, powder, and ball - try telling a judge it wasn't loaded. Secondly...why carry it that way?
     
  9. gmatov

    gmatov member

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    Ryan M,

    What do you know about the PA firearms ordinances? Not to be picking on you, but if you could point me to where in the hell you CAN get where you may or may not carry, I would be deeply appreciative.

    There are places I think I may, and then there are places that I keep reading that I may not.

    F'rinstance, I go into an eating place that also serves liquor, but I don't drink, am I in violation? If it derives over 51 % of its income from food, it is a different animal, Am I in violation?

    Tough to determine what you are allowed to do with a permit. No rules posted to tell you what you can't do.

    Cheers,

    George
     
  10. pohill

    pohill Member

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    concealed weapon

    In MA, if it's a "weapon" (gun - BP or otherwise), and its concealed, then it's a concealed weapon. Laws in restrictive states do not vary alot in concept.
     
  11. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    http://members.aol.com/StatutesP2/18.Cp.61A.html

    If you have a concealed carry permit, there are very few places where you cannot legally carry. Any Federal or State property, such as post offices, state parks, jails, etc. In most counties, you also may not carry in local courthouses, though in 1 or 2 counties, only the courtrooms, DA's office, Judge's chambers, and other rooms where legal business is actually conducted, may be marked no firearms. http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA913.html

    Also, in the case of post offices, the post office must be clearly marked at the main entrance "no firearms allowed," otherwise you can't be charged for bringing a gun in. Same with state parks. Still looking for that one, but I know it's in there.

    Other than that, it's all good. Churches, bars, restaurants, even public schools! http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA912.html

    There was a guy awhile back who stopped an attempted school shooting with a legally carried concealed handgun that he'd had with him while attending some kind of school event. He wasn't charged with a thing. Stopping a killing spree is actually a "lawful purpose?" Who woulda thunk it?

    Also, the PA CCW is a concealed firearms license. PA state law defines a firearm thusly:

    http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA6102.html
    Also relevant is § 6118. Antique firearms. http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA6118.html

    The legalese in (b) is kind of convoluted, so let me translate. "Antique firearms, as defined below, are not usually firearms. They are firearms for the purpose of concealed carry, and they are firearms if you're a convicted felon or wifebeater."

    Hm, darn. So an NAA Companion actually wouldn't be a good CCW piece for a convicted felon, in this state.

    Also relevant is § 908. Prohibited offensive weapons. http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA908.html

    PA state law has a lot of clauses like that. Makes the law look a lot stricter than it really is.
     
  12. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    ROA? Ruger Old Army?
     
  13. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    Man, I think I could conceal a shotgun about as easy as an Old Army! ROFL!

    A black powder is a firearm under Texas law and you need a permit to carry it on your person loaded or not unless hunting or fishing or otherwise in an outdoor activity where exposed firearms are not prohibited.

    http://www.packing.org is a good source of info on concealed carry laws state by state.
     
  14. Derek

    Derek Member

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    Carl, yes, as in "Fabrici diem, pvnc!"
     
  15. gopguy

    gopguy Member

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    Ohio bans carrying firearms in all government buildings...state, local, federal. No black powder firearms either.....
     
  16. wdlsguy

    wdlsguy Member

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    Generally true, unless it's "a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899" and "if the replica does not use rim fire or center fire ammunition" [Texas Penal Code § 46.01(3)(B)].

    I don't think a Ruger Old Army qualifies as a replica of anything manufactured before 1899, so I believe it would be considered a firearm under Texas law.
     
  17. pohill

    pohill Member

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    In MA (for example), the ROA would be on the same level as an 1860 .44 as long as it used black powder (or Pyrodex, 777), ball and caps (unconventional ammo), even though it's not a replica of any particular revolver. Convert to cartridge and everything changes. This info I actually got from the ATF and MA State Police about a year ago.
     
  18. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    wdlsguy, so you're saying I could carry a concealed 51 Remington in Texas with no permit? I haven't looked into it specifically, I'll admit.
     
  19. wdlsguy

    wdlsguy Member

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    The law seems to read that way, but the Harris County DA seems to think otherwise.
     
  20. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    Sounds like some creativity going on. However, if you were just caught with it and not "using it as a weapon"? Ah, I'll let others test the law, I reckon. I have a CCW anyway, I just like to know the letter of the law. Might be handy to know someday if I COULD carry a Remmie legally. But, I've also heard that in Harris county, no one has ever been found to be "traveling" by the old statute before the passed the "presumption of travel" thing a while back.
     
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