Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

CCW in Bars?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by rainbowbob, Apr 18, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. rainbowbob

    rainbowbob Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,559
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Let me preface this by saying I don't go out to clubs much anymore, and don't spend much time in bars of any kind.

    Recently, however, I went to a movie with a friend. My friend was in this movie and this was a special screening for the folks involved and their friends and families. It is not a terrible part of town, but it is a dense urban area with its share of street crime - much like any city these days. I was CCW, of course.

    I had thought we would be leaving right after because he had to get up early the next day. After the movie, the party moved to the nearest bar, and he insisted we join them for a beer. That sounded good to me – but CCW is illegal in bars here. We were blocks from his car, and I had never discussed CCW with him. Asking for his keys so I could lock my gun in his car would have been VERY awkward. I also would not be at all comfortable locking my gun in someone else’s car, over which I have no control, in an urban neighborhood, and then walk blocks back to the bar unarmed.

    So I just went in the bar and had a beer. I know that concealed means just that, and there was no problem whatever…other than the fact that I was breaking the law.

    It seemed to me that my only choices were to break the law, spoil my friends good time and tell him I can’t go in - and why, or ask for his keys. None of the choices felt right.

    Any suggestions or comments?
     
  2. Rugerlvr

    Rugerlvr Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,145
    Location:
    Utah
    In Utah it's highly illegal to be intoxicated while carrying. I would have teetotaled in that situation, but I don't think it's illegal to carry in a bar absent being intoxicated.
     
  3. Feud

    Feud Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    Messages:
    453
    Location:
    In a house.
    I don't frequent bars, so I'm not familiar with the atmosphere that is normally there. But, even if you keep your own drinking under control, it seems that there are other problems that could arise. For example, a fight starting between a friend of yours and someone else that you get pulled (literally or figuratively) into, police come and you get searched. Or, someone with a few too many stumbling into you and accidentally grabbing the gun, and the whole bar potentially being made aware of it's presence.

    Personally, I think it would have been better had you explained the situation to them, and ask for a rain check. If he's a real friend then he might be disappointed, but he will care more about your best interest and be fine with it.
     
  4. csmkersh

    csmkersh Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,050
    Location:
    San Antonio TX


    In Texas, that would be a crime. In Virginia, CCW would be a crime but open carry would not. Salud, Virginia.

     
  5. exar

    exar Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    488
    Location:
    Indiana
    Well, I think you know the answer's. You could vote to change your law's(HAHAHAHAHA:neener:). You could move to a state that is more in-line with your life prefrence's, like IN, where carry is allowed in bar's:D. Or, you could follow the easiest advice: CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED!!!:evil:
     
  6. Kitchen_Duty

    Kitchen_Duty Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2007
    Messages:
    323
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington
    I go to seattle often and I try not to carry in bars, the whole: "you cannot carry in a place that requires you to be 21" kinda thing. I guess you could avoid trouble by not drinking anything just in case. the cops come, you could say you were not drinking. The police can use their brains in areas like this I assume, so everything you can do right will help in the thing you are doing wrong. Better to say that you couldn't lock it up somewhere and you were not drinking than slurring words and stumbling out of your chair and dropping a 1911 on the ground.


    You could also reference the shooting outside of a nightclub, I don't know which one or exactly when, a couple of weeks ago. I know it was in Seattle, that's all I know.
     
  7. Rachen

    Rachen member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,541
    Location:
    New York
    I support CCW in any place, including bars.

    HOWEVER, if you get into trouble that you started yourself because you were drunk, then you should be responsible. The right to carry also carries with it great responsibility. And alcohol or drunkenness is not an excuse for anything. Stupidity means you will face the LAW.

    Other than that, CCW should be universal.
     
  8. ArcherandShooter

    ArcherandShooter Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2006
    Messages:
    348
    Location:
    Llano, TX
    Don't risk it

    Tough spot to be in.

    I think I'd have taken door number 2 and neither gone in to the bar nor risked the trip to the car and back, let alone leaving my weapon out of my personal control blocks away in someone else's vehicle.

    Whether to tell him why or not would depend on the depth of our friendship, whether or not I thought an explanation of my CCW and the limits it puts on me would cause more problem than a "little-white-social" untruth - something on the lines of "I have to get up early tomorrow - you go ahead and have a good time. I'll just catch a cab home".

    Whatever I did, I would not risk my freedom and any future RKBA by violating CCW in a bar. I don't know about your state, but down here in TX that's a felony. :eek:
     
  9. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    47,953
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    TN doesn't allow you to carry, much less consume, where alcoholic beverages are consumed on the premises.

    Indiana allows CCW holders to carry and consume alcoholic beverages in a bar/restaurant

    As another member pointed out in the Activism thread on TN's attempt to get a restaurant carry bill passed, Indiana's firearms death rate is lower than Tennessee's and yet Indianans with a CCW don't seem to get into drunken movie gunfights.

    Is it because they all just decide that they won't consume alcoholic beverages when they go to the bar or have dinner at the restaurant in spite of the fact that it is perfectly legal for them to do so or is it because they decide not to get intoxicated while carrying?

    I've always been a staunch opponent of mixing alcohol with ammunition, but the relative gun crime rate and gun death/injury rate differences between my state and one that does allow folks with a CCW to drink makes me think about the issue more.
     
  10. Firehand

    Firehand Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    Bar or restaurant that has a bar? Reason I ask, in OK you cannot carry in a bar, but you can carry in a restaurant that has a bar; you cannot sit at the bar while carrying.
     
  11. Superlite27

    Superlite27 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Messages:
    711
    In Missouri, the establishment's main source of revenue has to come from something other than alcohol. So, basically, no taverns. If the bar has a grill, the cook should be working his butt off!

    If friends want to go grab a beer, I always suggest going to Applebees, Chili's, or somewhere where we can do so without breaking the law.

    Remember, should you get busted, that one beer will be the most expensive one you will ever drink. No more carrying for you again.

    I reccommend begging off if it is illegal in your state. The price is just too high.
     
  12. JerryM

    JerryM Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    New Mexico
    I am personally against CCW in bars. However, in NM it is a 4th degree felony to carry where alcohol is served. That would make it a no brainer for me.

    In the case here I would have not gone with the party. I would not risk a felony whether it spoiled another's evening or not.

    Best,
    Jerry
     
  13. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Messages:
    4,586
    Location:
    somewhere on Puget Sound
    That is, in a nutshell, about the equivilent of the Washington statute (RCW 94.41.300).

    Rainbowbob, many of us Evergreen Staters run into this dilemma regularly ... there are essentially two options as I see it: (1) Only go into a restaurant that serves, do not sit in the separated lounge area, enjoy your one or two beers; or, (2) Discreetly secure your weapon in the vehicle (no matter how distasteful the idea is to you) -- if I know in advance this is gonna be a possibility, I carry of handgun of lesser value (both monetary and sentimental) when I go out.

    You can always tell your friend something such as, "Hey, can I have your car keys -- I wanna leave my [cell phone/sunglasses/jacket/cap, etc.) in the car." Or just be honest -- sometimes you'll be surprised, even if you've never discussed guns or CCW with that/those persons previously.

    The penalty is (only) a gross misdemeanor -- but it's gonna result in a permanent loss of your Washington CPL. Consequences are simply too great, so my advice is don't risk it, no matter how well you think you're concealing or how infinitesmal the chances are of being caught packing in violation of the law.
     
  14. Kind of Blued

    Kind of Blued Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    3,676
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    In Colorado, it's pretty much just "don't be drunk while carrying". If you can't legally drive, you can't legally carry. That seems like a very fair law to me.

    To the OP: That brings to mind the notion "What is more important? Your life or following the law." However, I feel that that rhetorical question only really applies in a world where carrying for self-defense is illegal outright and living a safe life can't be possible. I think you should have had more respect for the law than your friend's feelings and just done what (I think) you knew was right.
     
  15. ctdonath

    ctdonath Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2003
    Messages:
    3,618
    Location:
    Cumming GA
    I have no problem with CCW in bars. You can choose to be responsible, or you can choose to be irresponsible - and that's your choice. Prohibiting because you might be stupid is stupid.

    Depends entirely on your state - and the rules vary wildly.

    For all the oppression in NY, carry while imbibing is perfectly legal (Rochester proper has a 0.01 BAC limit, though).

    For all the freedom in GA, mere carry in a bar is illegal (even if unloaded, IIRC).
     
  16. eric.cartman

    eric.cartman Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2007
    Messages:
    827
    Location:
    Florida
    In Florida, from: http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/in...y_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec06.HTM

    So at least it's not a felony in FL. But still, you may get your license suspended for a period of time; but you will be able to carry again some time in the future.

    It is however LEGAL in FL to carry and be drunk. As long as the gun is not "readily accessible for immediate use == in ones hand".
     
  17. JesseL

    JesseL Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,492
    Location:
    Prescott, AZ
    In Arizona carry in any establishment that serves alcohol for on premises consumption is illegal.

    Thus the one place where I make doubly sure to be well concealed is in restaurants. I don't drink and I do my best to never be unarmed, so I take my chances. :uhoh:

    The legislature has been working on getting restaurant carry legalized for years, but every time it gets through the state senate the governor vetos it.:banghead::fire:
     
  18. Sniper X

    Sniper X Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,635
    Location:
    New Mexico
    I think under the circumstances no cop in his RIGHT mind would have hassled you for that situation. However, since you did have a drink, that could have made a difference, especially if you had been drinking a beer when caught CCW. If there was no way anyone could have known, seen it whatever, you were obviously fine. I have had to do the same thing, just would have walked away if they had been checking at the door like they do in "clubs" as opposed to a street bar.
     
  19. rainbowbob

    rainbowbob Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,559
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    This was a pizza/bar where persons under 21 are prohibited. CCW in such an establishment is clearly prohibited in WA State.

    I did not (and do not when CCW) drink to the point of intoxication. I also don't think drinking makes the average man into a homocidal maniac or even a brawler (at least it doesn't affect me that way).

    The cost/benefit analysis goes like this:
    The risk of being "made" and prosecuted for CCW in that situation is almost nil. So is the risk of being assualted on the street. Which is higher? Which occurence would present the most severe consequences? Losing my CPL would be unacceptable. So would losing my life.

    I know that the legal course to follow is to leave the gun at home if there is any chance I will be entering a bar. But that leaves me unarmed at a time (night) and in a place (downtown) where I believe I am the most vulnerable. Lobbying to change the law - in light of the recent and frequent hip-hop bar shootings - is probably a non-starter.
     
  20. Sniper X

    Sniper X Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,635
    Location:
    New Mexico
    Here in NM it is even considered a grey area, by some, to carry inot a package place, even if all they sell is Beer, like a convienence store! That my freinds is nuts.
     
  21. romma

    romma Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    3,208
    Location:
    Southeastern,CT
    You can carry in bars in CT, but you best not be intoxicated...
     
  22. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,041
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    Not to quibble, but it's not a "pretty much" matter. It's legal to carry openly or concealed in Colorado bars and liquor stores, providing one's blood alcohol content remains below .08%. Open carry is illegal in Denver, the town that wants to be the San Francisco of the Rocky Mountains, and Telluride.
     
  23. Biker

    Biker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    6,105
    Location:
    Idaho
    Burp.

    Biker
     
  24. rugerman07

    rugerman07 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    Messages:
    532
    Location:
    Southern Illinois
    I live in The Peoples Republic Of Illinois where concealed carry is illegal. But, if I lived in a state that had a concealed carry law, I would never, under any circumstances, carry a concealed weapon in a bar even if it was legal to do so. It's like the late, great, John Wayne said, in his classic movie, The Shootist, guns and hootch don't mix.
     
  25. silverking

    silverking Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    274
    Location:
    S.E. Michigan
    If it's illegal to ccw in a bar, I just won't do it. We all know that the laws vary by state. My story is just a bit different. Several months ago my favorite breakfast spot closed due to financial problems. It was a small diner and most of the customers were regulars. Even the deputy that ate there every morning knew i carried. (One of the waitresses "bumped into me accidentally and made the discovery) and the conversation went on from there.
    After the closing, the bar owner down the street offered to open his place for breakfast if the girls from the diner would come to work there. They all reached their agreements and it was back to breakfast as usual for most of the regulars from the diner. But now we're in a bar environment and this guy knows the law. The weapon stays in the truck with BIG dog untill we leave. Even the deputy still has his breakfast there but he's in uniform and completly accessorized.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page