CCW in Bars?

[rainbowbob]

Let me preface this by saying I don't go out to clubs much anymore, and don't spend much time in bars of any kind.

Recently, however, I went to a movie with a friend. My friend was in this movie and this was a special screening for the folks involved and their friends and families. It is not a terrible part of town, but it is a dense urban area with its share of street crime - much like any city these days. I was CCW, of course.

I had thought we would be leaving right after because he had to get up early the next day. After the movie, the party moved to the nearest bar, and he insisted we join them for a beer. That sounded good to me – but CCW is illegal in bars here. We were blocks from his car, and I had never discussed CCW with him. Asking for his keys so I could lock my gun in his car would have been VERY awkward. I also would not be at all comfortable locking my gun in someone else’s car, over which I have no control, in an urban neighborhood, and then walk blocks back to the bar unarmed.

So I just went in the bar and had a beer. I know that concealed means just that, and there was no problem whatever…other than the fact that I was breaking the law.

It seemed to me that my only choices were to break the law, spoil my friends good time and tell him I can’t go in - and why, or ask for his keys. None of the choices felt right.

Any suggestions or comments?

 

[Rugerlvr]

In Utah it's highly illegal to be intoxicated while carrying. I would have teetotaled in that situation, but I don't think it's illegal to carry in a bar absent being intoxicated.

 

[Feud]

I don't frequent bars, so I'm not familiar with the atmosphere that is normally there. But, even if you keep your own drinking under control, it seems that there are other problems that could arise. For example, a fight starting between a friend of yours and someone else that you get pulled (literally or figuratively) into, police come and you get searched. Or, someone with a few too many stumbling into you and accidentally grabbing the gun, and the whole bar potentially being made aware of it's presence.

Personally, I think it would have been better had you explained the situation to them, and ask for a rain check. If he's a real friend then he might be disappointed, but he will care more about your best interest and be fine with it.

 

[csmkersh]

In Texas, that would be a crime. In Virginia, CCW would be a crime but open carry would not. Salud, Virginia.

​

 

[exar]

Any suggestions or comments?

Well, I think you know the answer's. You could vote to change your law's(HAHAHAHAHA). You could move to a state that is more in-line with your life prefrence's, like IN, where carry is allowed in bar's. Or, you could follow the easiest advice: CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED!!!

 

[Kitchen_Duty]

I go to seattle often and I try not to carry in bars, the whole: "you cannot carry in a place that requires you to be 21" kinda thing. I guess you could avoid trouble by not drinking anything just in case. the cops come, you could say you were not drinking. The police can use their brains in areas like this I assume, so everything you can do right will help in the thing you are doing wrong. Better to say that you couldn't lock it up somewhere and you were not drinking than slurring words and stumbling out of your chair and dropping a 1911 on the ground.


You could also reference the shooting outside of a nightclub, I don't know which one or exactly when, a couple of weeks ago. I know it was in Seattle, that's all I know.

 

[Rachen]

I support CCW in any place, including bars.

HOWEVER, if you get into trouble that you started yourself because you were drunk, then you should be responsible. The right to carry also carries with it great responsibility. And alcohol or drunkenness is not an excuse for anything. Stupidity means you will face the LAW.

Other than that, CCW should be universal.

 

[ArcherandShooter]

Don't risk it

Tough spot to be in.

I think I'd have taken door number 2 and neither gone in to the bar nor risked the trip to the car and back, let alone leaving my weapon out of my personal control blocks away in someone else's vehicle.

Whether to tell him why or not would depend on the depth of our friendship, whether or not I thought an explanation of my CCW and the limits it puts on me would cause more problem than a "little-white-social" untruth - something on the lines of "I have to get up early tomorrow - you go ahead and have a good time. I'll just catch a cab home".

Whatever I did, I would not risk my freedom and any future RKBA by violating CCW in a bar. I don't know about your state, but down here in TX that's a felony.

 

[hso]

TN doesn't allow you to carry, much less consume, where alcoholic beverages are consumed on the premises.

Indiana allows CCW holders to carry and consume alcoholic beverages in a bar/restaurant

As another member pointed out in the Activism thread on TN's attempt to get a restaurant carry bill passed, Indiana's firearms death rate is lower than Tennessee's and yet Indianans with a CCW don't seem to get into drunken movie gunfights.

Is it because they all just decide that they won't consume alcoholic beverages when they go to the bar or have dinner at the restaurant in spite of the fact that it is perfectly legal for them to do so or is it because they decide not to get intoxicated while carrying?

I've always been a staunch opponent of mixing alcohol with ammunition, but the relative gun crime rate and gun death/injury rate differences between my state and one that does allow folks with a CCW to drink makes me think about the issue more.

 

[Firehand]

Bar or restaurant that has a bar? Reason I ask, in OK you cannot carry in a bar, but you can carry in a restaurant that has a bar; you cannot sit at the bar while carrying.

 

[Superlite27]

In Missouri, the establishment's main source of revenue has to come from something other than alcohol. So, basically, no taverns. If the bar has a grill, the cook should be working his butt off!

If friends want to go grab a beer, I always suggest going to Applebees, Chili's, or somewhere where we can do so without breaking the law.

Remember, should you get busted, that one beer will be the most expensive one you will ever drink. No more carrying for you again.

I reccommend begging off if it is illegal in your state. The price is just too high.

 

[JerryM]

I am personally against CCW in bars. However, in NM it is a 4th degree felony to carry where alcohol is served. That would make it a no brainer for me.

In the case here I would have not gone with the party. I would not risk a felony whether it spoiled another's evening or not.

Best,
Jerry

 

[Old Dog]

in OK you cannot carry in a bar, but you can carry in a restaurant that has a bar; you cannot sit at the bar while carrying.

That is, in a nutshell, about the equivilent of the Washington statute (RCW 94.41.300).

Rainbowbob, many of us Evergreen Staters run into this dilemma regularly ... there are essentially two options as I see it: (1) Only go into a restaurant that serves, do not sit in the separated lounge area, enjoy your one or two beers; or, (2) Discreetly secure your weapon in the vehicle (no matter how distasteful the idea is to you) -- if I know in advance this is gonna be a possibility, I carry of handgun of lesser value (both monetary and sentimental) when I go out.

You can always tell your friend something such as, "Hey, can I have your car keys -- I wanna leave my [cell phone/sunglasses/jacket/cap, etc.) in the car." Or just be honest -- sometimes you'll be surprised, even if you've never discussed guns or CCW with that/those persons previously.

The penalty is (only) a gross misdemeanor -- but it's gonna result in a permanent loss of your Washington CPL. Consequences are simply too great, so my advice is don't risk it, no matter how well you think you're concealing or how infinitesmal the chances are of being caught packing in violation of the law.

 

[Kind of Blued]

In Colorado, it's pretty much just "don't be drunk while carrying". If you can't legally drive, you can't legally carry. That seems like a very fair law to me.

To the OP: That brings to mind the notion "What is more important? Your life or following the law." However, I feel that that rhetorical question only really applies in a world where carrying for self-defense is illegal outright and living a safe life can't be possible. I think you should have had more respect for the law than your friend's feelings and just done what (I think) you knew was right.

 

[ctdonath]

I have no problem with CCW in bars. You can choose to be responsible, or you can choose to be irresponsible - and that's your choice. Prohibiting because you might be stupid is stupid.

Depends entirely on your state - and the rules vary wildly.

For all the oppression in NY, carry while imbibing is perfectly legal (Rochester proper has a 0.01 BAC limit, though).

For all the freedom in GA, mere carry in a bar is illegal (even if unloaded, IIRC).

 

[eric.cartman]

In Florida, from: http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/in...y_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec06.HTM

(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

So at least it's not a felony in FL. But still, you may get your license suspended for a period of time; but you will be able to carry again some time in the future.

It is however LEGAL in FL to carry and be drunk. As long as the gun is not "readily accessible for immediate use == in ones hand".

 

[JesseL]

In Arizona carry in any establishment that serves alcohol for on premises consumption is illegal.

Thus the one place where I make doubly sure to be well concealed is in restaurants. I don't drink and I do my best to never be unarmed, so I take my chances.

The legislature has been working on getting restaurant carry legalized for years, but every time it gets through the state senate the governor vetos it.:banghead:

 

[Sniper X]

I think under the circumstances no cop in his RIGHT mind would have hassled you for that situation. However, since you did have a drink, that could have made a difference, especially if you had been drinking a beer when caught CCW. If there was no way anyone could have known, seen it whatever, you were obviously fine. I have had to do the same thing, just would have walked away if they had been checking at the door like they do in "clubs" as opposed to a street bar.

 

[rainbowbob]

This was a pizza/bar where persons under 21 are prohibited. CCW in such an establishment is clearly prohibited in WA State.

I did not (and do not when CCW) drink to the point of intoxication. I also don't think drinking makes the average man into a homocidal maniac or even a brawler (at least it doesn't affect me that way).

The cost/benefit analysis goes like this:
The risk of being "made" and prosecuted for CCW in that situation is almost nil. So is the risk of being assualted on the street. Which is higher? Which occurence would present the most severe consequences? Losing my CPL would be unacceptable. So would losing my life.

I know that the legal course to follow is to leave the gun at home if there is any chance I will be entering a bar. But that leaves me unarmed at a time (night) and in a place (downtown) where I believe I am the most vulnerable. Lobbying to change the law - in light of the recent and frequent hip-hop bar shootings - is probably a non-starter.

 

[Sniper X]

Here in NM it is even considered a grey area, by some, to carry inot a package place, even if all they sell is Beer, like a convienence store! That my freinds is nuts.

 

[romma]

You can carry in bars in CT, but you best not be intoxicated...

 

[Standing Wolf]

In Colorado, it's pretty much just "don't be drunk while carrying". If you can't legally drive, you can't legally carry. That seems like a very fair law to me.

Not to quibble, but it's not a "pretty much" matter. It's legal to carry openly or concealed in Colorado bars and liquor stores, providing one's blood alcohol content remains below .08%. Open carry is illegal in Denver, the town that wants to be the San Francisco of the Rocky Mountains, and Telluride.

 

[Biker]

Burp.

Biker

 

[rugerman07]

I live in The Peoples Republic Of Illinois where concealed carry is illegal. But, if I lived in a state that had a concealed carry law, I would never, under any circumstances, carry a concealed weapon in a bar even if it was legal to do so. It's like the late, great, John Wayne said, in his classic movie, The Shootist, guns and hootch don't mix.

 

[silverking]

If it's illegal to ccw in a bar, I just won't do it. We all know that the laws vary by state. My story is just a bit different. Several months ago my favorite breakfast spot closed due to financial problems. It was a small diner and most of the customers were regulars. Even the deputy that ate there every morning knew i carried. (One of the waitresses "bumped into me accidentally and made the discovery) and the conversation went on from there.
After the closing, the bar owner down the street offered to open his place for breakfast if the girls from the diner would come to work there. They all reached their agreements and it was back to breakfast as usual for most of the regulars from the diner. But now we're in a bar environment and this guy knows the law. The weapon stays in the truck with BIG dog untill we leave. Even the deputy still has his breakfast there but he's in uniform and completly accessorized.