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CCW in the air

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Combat-wombat, Jan 3, 2003.

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  1. Combat-wombat

    Combat-wombat Member

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    Hey, I'm just seeing what peoples' opinions are on ccw on planes is. Of course most of you will say yes, and I generally agree, but I think about the scenario where there is only one CCW holder on the plane, and he is a terrorist. What is your opinion on the subject?
     
  2. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Member In Memoriam

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    Has he got a 232 round magazine and very fast reflexes?

    If not, he's dead, dismembered and otherwise mutilated. I'll go first if need be and if I get the opportunity.
     
  3. treeprof

    treeprof Member

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    Assuming one could CCW on planes, if I was on the plane, he wouldn't be the only one armed. If a planeload of other people all wish to fly unarmed and risk a BG being the only one who is armed on their particular flight, then it's no different to me than those willing to walk down the street unarmed - it's their life to gamble with and I'm frankly not too concerned about it.
     
  4. Combat-wombat

    Combat-wombat Member

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    Yes, but the BG could ram the plane into a building and kill thousands, and it wouldn't matter if they were armed or not!
     
  5. mjustice

    mjustice Member

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    I would think that if you could carry a weapon on a plane, that there would be a big upswing in the number of people licensed. If the feds "allowed" this, I doubt you would find a plane in America that did not have an armed crewmember or multiple armed passengers.

    But, like most good ideas, the government has tossed this one into the circular file. They seem to forget that there were fewer highjackings before the metal detectors and prohibitions on "carry-on" weapons.

    MJ
     
  6. ReadyontheRight

    ReadyontheRight Member

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    I think the perception of 200+ armed passengers would stop terrorists from even trying. Altough the New York to San Francisco flight might give a terrorist better odds than Denver to Dallas.
     
  7. treeprof

    treeprof Member

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    Huh? It wouldn't matter if WHO was armed? The BG? The people in the bldg? Other passengers?
     
  8. Combat-wombat

    Combat-wombat Member

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    The people in the building
     
  9. treeprof

    treeprof Member

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    Ok, then true, but all kinds of disasters - natural, accidents, terrorism - could befall one regardless of whether they carried or not. And the 9/11 guys accomplished everything with boxcutters.
     
  10. michaelbane

    michaelbane Member

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    I'm all for CCW on planes - and more!

    I have posted on several different threads, including my own, that passengers should be armed. Not just planes, but trains, ships and buses as well.
     
  11. Zach S

    Zach S Member

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    edited
     
  12. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Terrorists don't apply for concealed carry permits.

    I'll reconsider flying when I'm treated as a citizen rather than a criminal; until then, I'd continue to drive.
     
  13. strambo

    strambo Member

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    True, but playing Devil's advocate; Terrorists could easily fake the CCW ID. Currently, no one is allowed on board with a gun regardless of ID. CCW on planes would allow people to carry with a credential. CCW rates are few even is States that allow it...so a Terrorist being the only one on board with a gun is a pretty real possibility.

    That said..I'd rather see it and the Feds could require a certain # of crew be licensed/trained to carry on each flight. Like an armed security position...dual hatting, serving drinks by profession and lead when needed.:)
     
  14. hub

    hub Member

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    it's dosent make much since. i am a fright train conductor and i'm not even allowed to carry any weapons at all. we carry thousands of tons of dangerous and hazmat materials everyday and all i have is a radio and flashlight.
     
  15. Lupinus

    Lupinus Member

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    All for it. Even now if a plane wasnt filled with sheeple no plane would be hijakable. Two guys manage to smuggle a handgun each onto a plane. Thats what? Thirty rounds at most? Asuming that they are good shots and each round kills someone that is thirty dead pasangers and two dead hijackers with the plane landed at the nearist air port and no building crashed into. And I doubt in the confined space of an airplane if all thirty rounds would be put to optimal use with one shot equaling one kill and all shots off. And unlike popular belief a bullet hole will not decompress a plane at worst it will hit one of the hydrolic systems.

    As to threatning a bomb? Ok fair enough. I know I am dead anyway and at least a few thousand souls arn't coming with us.
     
  16. ElTacoGrande

    ElTacoGrande Member

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    I support the idea of CCW (and open carry!) on planes. Maybe they would need to do some tests to see if there's any risk from some kinds of rounds, like (dunno) maybe some kinds of shotgun rounds are dangerous or whatever. But as long as it isn't capable of bringing down the plane, people should be allowed to carry it. I know that regular pistol ammo isn't a danger to a plane; Israelis have done tests on this. The cockpit should probably be separate from the cabin by a solid bullet-stopping barrier.

    I would feel safer on a plane if a dozen of us were toting M4s.
     
  17. AZLibertarian

    AZLibertarian Member

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    This was discussed earlier this summer. If you can get through this entire thread, you'll see that I think CCW for passengers is a very bad idea.
     
  18. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Before 9/11, folks thought that if they cooperated they'd live through some sort of hostage-negotiation deal.

    Not now.

    Jump up with any weapon. Threaten to kill a Stew. How sad, too bad. You're gonna be dead before you can break into the cockpit. "Let's roll!" will be the order of the day.

    Doesn't matter if there are CHLs on board the plane. Wouldn't hurt anything if there were. Even if a CHL holder shot another innocent passenger, there's gonna be an F16 alongside that's ready to do in all 400. All that counts is a landing you can walk away from.

    :), Art
     
  19. xd9fan

    xd9fan Member

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    I have never understood the knee jerk panic I get when my thoughts on this subject come out.

    Why can you protect your life in a car, bus, and a building but by God your life is worthless in a plane.
    If you are scared because a bullet might rupture the cabin then your priorites are wacked. If my gun is out of my holster its because BG's are trying to down the plane......at this point holes in the cabin simple do not matter.

    I got my CC permit to protect life.....mine and my families.

    The Federal Govt, after 4 years since 9/11, is good at the appearence of security. A new branch of Govt and billions spent and we have the appearence of security. Look at the borders!! and yet the minutemen, God bless em, prove to be cheaper and more effective. So to with all of the CCW holders across this land.

    But its about trust and control....and neither party is worried about that:rolleyes: :fire:
     
  20. SMMAssociates

    SMMAssociates Member

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    I've always believed in "arm the passengers", but I can see the disadvantages....

    That said, the foolishness that goes with the security screenings is somewhat off-putting. I will have to fly someplace in the next few months, but at least I can rest assured that nobody else I could possibly trust (except maybe a Federal employee, and that's another thread) will be armed....

    (I'm just too old and have some physical problems that would keep me from making that trip otherwise....)

    What frosts me, though, is the insane rigamarole involved in checking a firearm in baggage. How is a weapon stored in the baggage compartment going to be any danger to anyone? I can't get anywhere near it after I check in the bag until I get it off the carousel at my destination.... 'Bout all this seems to do is improve the odds that the bag and gun will vanish non-randomly instead of randomly.... :fire:

    I took my mom (she's 90, and was in a wheelchair) to PIT about a year ago. Special inspection, etc., using the airline's chair! I had to go through hell to get a boarding pass just to accompany her to the gate, and the TSA folks actually had to get permission from a supervisor to let me take a Sears screwdriver on my keychain.

    They used to sell 'em for about a buck. Flat circular disk about 0.010" thick with several little projections that can be used as various sized flat screwdrivers....

    Good thing they didn't figure out that my trusty Streamlight Stylus makes a pretty nasty weapon.... :evil:

    Regards,
     
  21. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    Unless they had a .50 Barrett, which as we know courtesy of the MSM can shoot down an airliner at a range of over one mile :neener:
     
  22. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    I don't suppose you could "interpret" the regs to allow the flashlight to be something like a Surefire ... with maybe a 1911 attached to the accessory rail?
     
  23. Fly320s

    Fly320s Member

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    Hawkmoon,

    Good idea. Because, really, a 1911 is just a flashlight with a very short-duration flash. :D
     
  24. Sylvilagus Aquaticus

    Sylvilagus Aquaticus Member

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    One of the best ideas I've heard, informally, of course, is to make everyone strip, give them one nice blanket and a K-BAR as soon as they get to the gate.

    Even my wife agrees with that one.


    Regards,
    Rabbit.
     
  25. Alex45ACP

    Alex45ACP Member

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    It should be up to each airline what they want their security procedures to be. People will vote with their dollars. Just another question that could be solved by the market instead of government meddling.
     
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