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CCW Legal Question

Discussion in 'Legal' started by XavierBreath, May 14, 2006.

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  1. XavierBreath

    XavierBreath Member

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    I never really thought about this until today......After church today, family and I went to a restaurant to eat. We went to a restaurant that serves alcohol during the week. I carry anywhere it is legal to do so.

    Louisiana forbids CCW on any portion of the permitted area of an
    establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail
    permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of
    Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of
    1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the
    premises.

    Here's the conumdrum.........Alcohol cannot be sold on Sunday due to the Blue Laws forbidding it. Therefore, the Class A-General retail permit does not apply on Sunday. Since the Class A-General retail permit does not apply, does the restriction against CCW still apply on Sunday?
     
  2. evan price

    evan price Member

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    If the proprietor has posted his premises then a CCW is illegal regardless.

    Otherwise this would be a grey area that would make a fine argument for the defense during your trial. Lawyers love this sort of nit picking.
     
  3. XavierBreath

    XavierBreath Member

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    For the sake of the argument, lets say it was not posted.
     
  4. Hyunchback

    Hyunchback Member

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    It is a sort of lawyer's nitpick question.

    The rule was obvious when enacted. Prevent drinking by persons carrying concealed weapons. Either you take off the gun or you don't go to where you can drink.

    But the place can't serve alcohol on Sunday. One day a week it's not capable of putting that substance into the system of a concealed carry holder.

    A local lawyer would have access to case law. I'm sure there are other things forbidden in such establishments and somewhere someone has argued in court that the business isn't legally a booze merchant on that day of the week so the thing they were forbidden on other nights was legal on Sundays.

    How the judge ruled under the previous challenge would tell a lawyer how future cases are likely to be decided, particularly if the case went before your state's Supreme Court.

    Here in Colorado I know exactly which lawyer to contact. He's also the president of the CSSA and well versed in firearms law. I don't know if he'd have a clue about Louisiana law but could probably locate his legal counterpart if needed.
     
  5. 7.62mm

    7.62mm Member

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    I'm no lawyer, but in Louisiana, it is my understanding that if it is a restaurant, then it probably has an "AR" alcohol license. Carrying concealed in a restaurant that serves alcoholic beverages with that license is legal.

    I don't know about being in the "Bar" of a restaurant, however. Perhaps they issue a different license for that part of the premises, but I doubt it...

    So the real issue, IMNSHO, is if it would be legal to carry in a bar that is, say, also a grill on Sunday in a location (City or Parish) that has Blue laws regarding the sale of alcohol on Sundays. AFAIK, in Lafayette, we do not have blue laws regarding alcohol. It is legal to sell any beer, wine, or liquor at bars, restaurants, liquor stores, or grocery stores on Sunday. (Wide open)

    Regards,

    7.62mm
     
  6. evan price

    evan price Member

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    IMHO
    IANAL


    If what you posted in your original post is an accurate copy of the CCW law in your state,

    Then you answered the question yourself already... The law "forbids CCW on any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a...permit"..et al.... the law says that specifically. So therefore, logically, if they have a permit, you can't carry there, regardless of if they are serving or not, as there is no exclusion in the clause, like, "Unless, that establishment is not legal to serve liqour on that day..." or something... typically, judges/cops/lawyers look at the law as the literal wording of the law.
    However; again, IANAL, it does say "...Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment..." which I would interpret to mean, as long as the establishment had separate eating area from the bar, as long as you did not enter the bar, or whatever portion of the area of the establishment that was actually covered by the permit, you would theoretically be OK...? Of course, if this is not defined by a wall or a door or some relatively easy to discern partition or markings, a cop might not be able to make a judgement and may just assume you are in violation.

    Would you like to be the test case that sets the legal precedent for your state and maybe never get your gun back? I do not know the legal "flavor" of politicians in LA so you would have to judge yourself. Maybe, just ask the local LEO or proprietor?

    IMHO again, when in doubt, CCW keep out.
     
  7. XavierBreath

    XavierBreath Member

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    The statute I cited came directly from the Louisiana CCW Permit Booklet. (pdf file)

    Here are the Class A Permit definitions:

    It appears as though there are four types of Class A establishments in Louisiana, and CCW is only forbidden at a Class A-General. The prohibition of underage patrons appears to be a defining factor of a Class A-General establishment.

    So, back to the original question......... If I were in a restaurant such as The Outback legally carrying a concealed firearm, on a Sunday when the Class-A General license would not apply to the bar area due to Blue Laws that prohibit the sale of alcohol on Sunday, would that bar area on that day be part of a Class-A Restaurant? Assuming that was the case, I should then be able to legally walk through the bar area while carrying a concealed gun on my way to the bathroom on a Sunday. Correct?

    Perhaps I am making a huge, incorrect assumption that the Blue laws make the Class-A General license not applicable. Perhaps it would still be applicable, just temporarily ineffectual.

    (Yes, I know the easier way is to just walk around........)
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2006
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