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CCW shoot out in Tulsa

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by scottw, Oct 5, 2006.

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  1. scottw

    scottw Member

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    You gotta hear this. 2 men were having an argument in a Waffle House here in Tulsa and went outside to settle the dispute. Man A pulls a replica Lighter that looks like a gun. Man B has a CCW and pulls it to shoot Man A. He misses both shots and the bullets went through the wall of Waffle House and hit an employee who was cleaning the windows. You all can come up with all the jokes you want about this one. Both were arrested. Employee was hit in leg is OK at this time.
     
  2. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Link? Gotta see SOME kind of proof before we start piling on :evil:
     
  3. tenbase

    tenbase Member

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  4. Bruce333

    Bruce333 Member

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    Never bring a lighter to a gun fight...

    Gun control...hit your target
     
  5. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    OK, now that it's documented it's a lot funnier :neener:

    Now, I have to say that it's right before Texas/OU weekend and I am a graduate of the University (of Texas in case you don't know that there's only one University :evil: ) so I will have to take the standard approach for this time of year.

    It's Oklahoma, what did you expect?
     
  6. Joe7cri

    Joe7cri Member

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    Leave your gun at home if you can't hit a man in a parking lot carrying a lighter:evil:
     
  7. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin member

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    Did the guy just happen to decide to light his cigarette in the middle of a fight??? I doubt it. I think he was trying to intimidate the man with what appeared to be a gun and as bad luck would have it the other guy had the real deal.

    If the guy with the gun had hit and killed the guy with the lighter I would say that all the fault lay with the guy pulling the lighter. The other guy did not know his life was not in danger.

    The fact that he missed and hit an innocent is something he should have to answer for legally and in civil court. Bad shooting is his fault and noone elses. That is why people should not only be trained but continue to practice after you get your ccw. A missed shot can find its way to very bad places... not to mention a missed attacked can still cut your throat.
     
  8. Geronimo45

    Geronimo45 Member

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    Avoid stupid arguments. Hit what you're aiming at...
    Sometimes I think CCW classes should teach shooter to stick the muzzle in the BGs eye socket before pulling the trigger. Maybe people could actually hit what they're aiming at then.
     
  9. grampster
    • Contributing Member

    grampster Member

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    Always consider the lighter to have a flint and fluid.
    Never point your lighter at anything you do not want to set on fire.
    Never put your finger on the strike wheel unless you want the lighter to light.
    Now whatna heck was that fourth rule?.....:neener:
     
  10. scottw

    scottw Member

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  11. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    I'm pretty sure it involved not getting SHOT :evil:
     
  12. ID_shooting

    ID_shooting Member

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    IMHO, the shooter lost all claims to self defence the minute he choose to "settle" the argument. When petty thugs feel the need to prove thier toughness, I walk away. When they start calling me names and tossing insults, I walk away. When they call my wifes unholy things, she has me walk away.

    The point is, if you can't control your self enough to avoid whizzing contests, you should not be carying a CCW. Even if the flamer had a real gun, to me, it would have been a bad shoot.
     
  13. RNB65

    RNB65 Member

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    Can you say, "civil lawsuit?"

    Can you say, "need a lawyer?"

    Can you say, "dumb and dumber?"
     
  14. Glockfan.45

    Glockfan.45 member

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    IMO it sounds like a justified shooting. The shooter had no way to identify the gun as a fake. Do I think it was stupid to take a petty argument outside, yes but I wont second guess a persons intentions when it comes to my life. As far as the person who was shot at I bet he learns not to pull a fake gun on anybody again. Sad to here about the employee though. Heres some fodder for the anti crowd.
     
  15. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    Where do you get the idea that the CCWer chose to "settle" the argument or that they "took it outside".

    Based on the story linked it looks like our CCWer had words with the guy and then left and the other guy followed him to continue the "dispute". Sounds to me like the CCWer took your advice and "walked away" ... just goes to show, sometimes when you "walk away" name calling, petty thugs proving their toughness will follow.


    Sounds to me like the only mistake made by the CCWer was not to keep Rule #4 in mind.
     
  16. silverlance

    silverlance Member

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    sigh*

    The sad thing is, had this been a perfectly good shoot (not necessarily dumbfish with the lighter DOA), it would have been an excellent story to tell all the folks who say that CCWs are for white hillbillies, etc.

    Heck, we might even have been able to get the NAACP to support CCW! Yeah, there' s a thought. :p

    I sure laughed for a bit on this one though. Poor window washer, horrible aim on the part of the shooter, and imagine the look that must have been on the other guy's face when he saw the shooter pull out the real deal and start spitting lead!

    lol*
     
  17. ny32182

    ny32182 Member

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    The shooter lost his self defense claim if he went outside with the intention to "settle the dispute", and it almost cost a 3rd party their life.

    Sounds like he needs to cool his heels in prison for a while to me. Kind of guy that gives all of CCW a bad name...
     
  18. Erebus

    Erebus Member

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    They should both be charged with the same thing. They both escalated it and brought it to the point that it almost killed an innocent bystander. Neither is any less guilty than the other. The guy pulling the lighter knew that it could result in a gun being pulled and fired in responce. He gambled against the odds that the other guy wasn't carrying and lost. The guy pulling the gun knew full well when he "stepped outside" he was, at least, allowing the situation to escalate and likely it's considered escalating it your self. So I see no one that shouldn't get smacked down here. And they both owe the innocent victim some serious cake. He got shot for their egos.
     
  19. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    strike one - eating at waffle house
    strike two - going to a parking lot to settle an argument while packing
    strike three - missing your target

    i'm predicting he's going to get what he deserves and deserve what he gets
     
  20. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    Did I read a completely different story than you guys did?

    I don't see anywhere that the CCWer had any interest in "settling the dispute" or "taking the argument to the parking lot" :confused:

    Or he was removing himself from the situation to de-escalate it?
    WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT EVERY CCW INSTRUCTOR IN THE WORLD TELLS YOU TO DO.

    It sounds to me like the guy with the lighter tried to start crap with the CCWer and he left like we all agree he should have.

    Just because you walk away doesn't mean the other guy is going to let it end there.

    That's pretty vague ... Mr. Lighter might have been a belligerent who just didn't like the cut of Mr. CCWer's jib and tried to start crap with him, Mr. CCWer might have responded with "What?" ... that's enough to count as "exchanged words" but that doesn't mean Mr. CCWer is a belligerent party here.


    Boy can you guys sure can armchair quarterback with half the facts ... lord I hope none of you ever serve on a jury :rolleyes:
     
  21. Eleven Mike

    Eleven Mike Member

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    Erebus,

    According to both stories that are linked, we have no indication that the shooter did anything to escalate the argument. Going outside probably meant that he was trying to get away from the other man.
     
  22. saltydog

    saltydog Member

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    Please. We still have our share of idiot's here too!:rolleyes:

    I ocassionally get fingered by some hick or redneck because I won't speed up in the slow lane and do 80 mph but I still smile and keep my 45 auto in its holster:D
     
  23. Valkman

    Valkman Member

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    How the shooter answered questions to the police (and of course what witnesses say) will determine what happens. If he tried to de-escalate by leaving and was truly scared he can get off. If he escalated it verbally and agreed to settle it outside he'll be charged, and deservedly so.
     
  24. RobXD9

    RobXD9 Member

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    I agree with a few other posters.

    The "real" shooter lost all hope to "self defense" when he went outside with the guy.

    If he really felt "threatened" then why didn't he stay inside and call police?

    I say unjustified. Lock him up. He gives CCW a bad name.

    Robert

    PS: This is assuming the story is accurate. It's possible he actually was walking outside because he was trying to AVOID the situation, and the "lighter" shooter followed.
     
  25. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin member

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    I am not sure I want to go down the road that says "if you CCW you have to walk away from every fight that does not threaten your life". I do agree we have to be more careful and than we have to realize how quickly something little can turn into something big but I do not feel we have to flee every non-life threatening conflict.

    If I am out and some loud mouth starts something with me I can usually ignore them...if they started in on a friend or mine or worse yet my better half I am afraid I still reserve the right to confront them and, if they insist on making it something physical, pound some sense into them.

    Just because I own a gun does not mean I have to become a doormat for every loud mouth out there.
     
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