CCW While at Work - Why?

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During the first Gulf War, I worked for a classified NASA contractor as the facility security officer. My retard, Klansman boss for security first refused to allow me to stop the access control system from automatically opening the employee door, then in response to [the latest in a series of which, he didn't tell me about] a bomb threat, gathered everyone together in the building's lobby where they could be shot, if the threat were a ruse. Right after that, I started carrying a briefcase to work. Inside were my Series 70 Colt and a ballistic vest.
 
If you carry in the street I don't see why one would not carry where they spend a large portion of thier lives. If it is a job that brings one in frequent contact with the public the inherent dangers are obvious. However even if it is a nice private office building, the fact that you can carry concealed should let you know anyone with ill intent could bring in a firearm. Even if you had a metal detector, were treated as unfree criminals, and had a security guard manning that detector, someone bent on going to your work and harming you or fellow co-workers could just blow the security guard away and head right on through before hurting an individual or commiting a massacre. All it would insure is that those inside were disarmed targets. It could be an ex employee, current disgruntled employee, some sort of upset customer or individual effected by the business, or an ex spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend of someone in the building. You have no idea who or what will come inside filled with anger or intent. The workplace is a place someone upset knows they can find another person too. So it is actualy a key location someone upset with someone that has tried to relocate or avoid that individual would go looking to find them.

To top it off even if the job is the safest place, the reality is that what you wear into and out of work is what you are going to wear to and from your car from work and to your home. What you wear to and from your car is what you will wear into and out of wherever you stop on the way home or to work. So in the parking lot, the gas station, the store, grab something to eat, or wherever you stop is likely to be done with what you already have on you. You can pretend you would always rearm and attach a holster and proceed to carry after you left work, and you might at first, but after awhile with no problems you would essentialy be as if you did not have a CCW. It would just become a comforting paperweight not likely with you if you ever needed it.

If you figure the average person will spend most of thier waking hours of life at work, then it lends itself to the notion that in all those years one is just as, if not more likely to have need of thier weapon in the defense of themselves or others in the workplace, or traveling to and from the workplace than anywhere else.
 
It sounds grim, but we need to establish legal precedent that an employer is liable for your death if you are denied carry rights at work and are killed as a result. Unfortunately this sticks employers between a rock and a hard place. If an employee is killed by another employee, they're liable for allowing the killer to have a weapon. If the employee is killed by someone else, then they're liable for not allowing the victim any defense.
 
I carry at work just as I wear my seatbelt when going less than a mile to the gas station. Just because something isn't likely to be needed does not mean that it WON'T be needed.
 
The world in this day and age is far too dangerous for you to actually believe that you're safe anywhere if you're unarmed.
 
I'm not supposed to cary at work because it's against company policy.....so usually my carry piece is left in the car, 30 ft from my office.

Why carry at work? you obviously haven't seen how far down in the barrel the owners of the company will scrape.....and often, I'm the guy who has to go tell them that they're all screwed up and make them scrap and re-build or rework product.

I keep my eye on one guy in particular, because I don't think he's got it all together upstairs.

And the drifty employees attract drify "friends".

Is the security inadequate?
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uh, the security is non-existant.

But even with all this...I'm not scared, nor do I feel threatened at work.

But don't you ever have to stop for gas on your way home from work? That in itself is enough reason to carry.
 
Originally posted by Blackbeard: It sounds grim, but we need to establish legal precedent that an employer is liable for your death if you are denied carry rights at work and are killed as a result. Unfortunately this sticks employers between a rock and a hard place. If an employee is killed by another employee, they're liable for allowing the killer to have a weapon. If the employee is killed by someone else, then they're liable for not allowing the victim any defense.
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No we should not. If you want to carry why not start your own business and carry. When you get a job you enter a contract with your employer stating that you will follow their rules.

Anti-gunners could make the argument that by allowing carry the company could be liable for any ND/AD's that happen on the property. Or if you heroically decide to save the office from a badguy and you miss your shot and hit an innocent coworker, who is liable?
 
Is the security inadequate?
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Security...ha. No such thing. I work at a parts distribution plant. We have a 'security guard' at the front in his office...unarmed. Front door is electronic card.

Now get this. Back doors are usually propped open because we don't have AC in the building, and our large bay door has a 'child gate' of sorts that can simply be pried open.

The kicker? A sign on the back keyed door has a picture of a commando with an ak with the caption, "keep the door closed, we don't want these types getting in here".:rolleyes:

Company policy prohibits firearms anywhere on the premises...even parking lots. Basically they disarm you to/from work and anywhere inbetween if you need groceries coming home.:fire:

So does that enlighten you a bit?
 
Here's an answer:

I carry at work because I shouldn't rely on others for my safety. It's not anyone else's duty to risk their butt to save mine, that goes for police, security guards, bystanders or otherwise.

If bad things happen at my workplace, as they have happened in countless otherwise "safe" workplaces where NO ONE thought they were in danger from violence, I don't want to cower under a desk hoping that the company's "security" will keep me from my demise....or wondering if the police will get there in time.

I take care of me. If you feel safe at work, without the need to carry or be prepared for bad things, then you're in the keeping of someone else. Do you trust anyone that much? Not me, bucko. Not me.
 
Why carry at work? you obviously haven't seen how far down in the barrel the owners of the company will scrape.....and often, I'm the guy who has to go tell them that they're all screwed up and make them scrap and re-build or rework product.
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When I worked for a classified NASA contractor in the '80s and '90s:

1. One of the employees was an active bank robber. When he'd go tdy to Virginia and elsewhere, he'd rob banks. The FBI eventually picked him up at his office at NASA Lewis.

2. One of the NASA scientists in the Nuclear Propulsion Divisin was a maniac. They stopped letting him go to conferences because he would rant incoherently. When they wouldn't let him go anymore, he threatened to pay his own way. One day he commented to one of my co-workers that "he had a gun, and he'd GET 'them'". I reported him to the NASA Lewis Security Office. I doubt anything was ever done.

3. The guy who did maintenance and picked up mail at my company was caught stealing paychecks out of the mail and cashing them at shady convenience stores on the east side of Cleveland.

4. One of the maintenance guys and one of the low level programmer-analysts were on-fire anti-Semites. The programmer was a punk kid whose mother was doing one of the managers. He was always late because he was out all night delivering pizzas. She'd log him into the network when she came in to make it look like he was there and working. One day in the lunchroom he threatened a Jewish friend who ran the computer help desk. I told him that if he tried to carry out any such threats, he'd have a "hunting accident".

Yeah, assuming that you won't need to defend yourself at work is a bad idea.
 
Personally, I don't carry at work because it's against policies and I kind of need my job...liking my job is another story.

But to play devils advocate... I work in a highly technical and highly competitve industry where there is not only fierce competition to get to the 'top' but also competition just to keep your job on quarterly basis.

Now, mind you, I work in a 'corporate' office where most would think that the employees are educated and rationale, but that's not always the case. This office is also very nonsecure; your average security guard who is just some guy working retirement or a college kid with no real interest in their jobs or duties, no metal detectors, and access is gained by magnetic cards.

So, couple these factors with the high-stress and higly-competitive enviornment and declining corporate culture we work in and you could have a recipie for disaster. There is nothing to stop someone from bringing in ANY kind of weapon and going on a rampage if their having that kind of day.
 
Geeez Goings_51 don't you watch the news? Anybody in a supervisory position has reason to be concerned. Things get heated quickly when some reject thinks you are ruining his life over a simple joke,reprimand,schedule change,layoff,cutback,promotion,demotion,benefit change....well you get the picture. I'd rather go down shooting than be executed sitting behind my desk. JMHO Chuck.
 
How about this. According to the Bureau of Justice statistics

1992-96
indicate that during each year U.S.
residents experienced more than 2 million victimizations
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residents also
suffered 396,000 aggravated assaults,
51,000 rapes and sexual assaults,
84,000 robberies, and
1,000 homicides.
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An interesting note. While white males are statistically the LEAST likely victims of violent crime outside of the workplace...
Nearly 9 in 10 of victims of workplace
violence were white males.
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Does that answer the question?
 
goings
When I read through the various forums, I get the impression that many, many of you carry while at work whether allowed or not. All arguments about "locked in car" or postal worker jokes aside, why do you feel so threatened at work that you risk your job every day? What environment do you work in? Is the security inadequate?
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I am trying to figure out why what others do is of any concern to you. Why do you feel the need to ask others for their reasons? Why folks carry a gun is a pretty personal choice. That some do so, even in the face of rules and regulations, indicates to me, that they feel they have reason enough to do so.
 
I carry at work

and I work from home. I carry during work hours for the same reason I carry the rest of the time.

I have had incidences where the "neighbors" check my door to make sure it's locked. Now, Im not sure why they do this... out of a sense of protecting the community, is my guess.

But, just in case.....

and that's why I carry at work.
 
When I read through the various forums, I get the impression that many, many of you carry while at work whether allowed or not. All arguments about "locked in car" or postal worker jokes aside, why do you feel so threatened at work that you risk your job every day? What environment do you work in? Is the security inadequate?
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Ever worked at a place that has had a disgruntled employee return with a rifle?

My company does not allow CC for that very reason. Seriously flawed logic - and it keeps me from carrying.


Thus I work from home as much as possible.
 
It sounds grim, but we need to establish legal precedent that an employer is liable for your death if you are denied carry rights at work and are killed as a result.
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I think that is important. Anytime someone forces an employee into a specific role of dependency they must rely upon others for, they are liable for providing a need. It is valid to hold an employer responsible when they specify that someone cannot provide for one of thier own needs at thier own discretion.

If an employee is killed by another employee, they're liable for allowing the killer to have a weapon.
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Only if they have a policy that mandates people MUST be armed. Otherwise once again it is the discretion of the private individual as to whether they are armed or not and in no way related to a decision by the employer. If it is concealed then the employer was not presented with a discretionary choice on its presence. Therefore the employer had no part in the decision making process or the weapons presence.

So if an employer says someone must be armed, or cannot be armed, then they have legaly decided to take responsibility for that decision and can be held accountable, and should be held accountable for thier policy decisions. Otherwise what an individual has personaly is not the responsibility of the employer and they are only accountable for actions taken that are within the scope of the job. Or if it is not concealed then obviously it suddenly becomes discretionary.

This reminds me of a policy I once saw someplace that someone else dealt with. The employer of an individual mandated that no drugs were allowed, and that those necessary had to be checked with some personel in the location. Well this person had asthma and was dependent on a prescription inhaler. They needed it one day and the person it was checked with was unavailable. The company was held liable because they had mandated a policy that made him unable to fend for himself. Now if he had forgot it out in his car or something on his own, they would not be liable without that policy. It would be his decision and his responsibility. By making a policy that mandated how he takes care of one of his own personal responsiblities the company took responsiblity, and therefore legal responsiblity and liability for the threats to safety a policy mandated.
I see the tools of self defense falling under the same legal responsiblity. If a company has no policy on whether someone has an item or not then an individuals actions with them are thier own responsiblity and they are personaly liable and not the company unless what they do is within the scope of thier employment, like security etc..Otherwise a gun, a knife, a flashlight, or what they bring for lunch is not something the employer had a part in, and if it is concealed then they had no discretion in allowing or not allowing it.
Once they make a policy that determines items allowed or disallowed which are used for any purpose, in this case self defense, then they assume liability and responsiblity.

So if someone dies or is injured in a place with a policy that does not allow the tools of self defense, then the place not allowing such tools was responsible for thier defense, and is liable for not providing it.
 
The fact is that as the population increases, so will the numbers of miscreants. Unfortunately, today's culture also has a large role to play in the severity of their activity as well. In the old days (whenever those were), people who were depressed tended to just shoot themselves, or jump out of office windows. Today, we live in an entitlement culture. People feel that not only should they never have to suffer any hardship, but that if their lives are miserable, yours should be too. Let me give you an example: years ago, depressed people crashed their cars into telephone polls to commit suicide, today, they crash into other cars, often killing the other occupants as well. If the stock market crashed today like it did in the 1930s, it is my hunch that instead of jumping out of office windows, the same people would go in and shoot up their workplaces. There's also a higher number of people on either illegal or legal mind altering drugs. You probably work with people who take all sorts of meds for problems that don't even really exist, but some psychologist told them they had. I frankly think there are more nuttier people than ever out in the world. There's also the common thug/robber of yore to worry about. If I COULD carry at work, I WOULD. Unfortunately, all I can carry at the University is a stupid can of pepper spray. Whole load of good that will do if some shooter bent on taking out a bunch of people were to walk in.
 
How about the attack in that Chicago office building, over a toilet seat patent of all things? All that security, guards all around, none of it stopped the killing from happening.
 
When I read through the various forums, I get the impression that many, many of you carry while at work whether allowed or not. All arguments about "locked in car" or postal worker jokes aside, why do you feel so threatened at work that you risk your job every day? What environment do you work in? Is the security inadequate?
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I work in a large lawfirm. Lawfirms have a nack for upsetting people. Twice this year alone we've had to call the police. One for a former employee being accosted in a nearby parking lot (she ran here for help) and another we actually had to have a Sheriff's deputy posted here for an upset husband. And just for giggles let's throw in the bomb scare at the Post Office next door.

Yeah. It's a little dangerous.
 
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