Cecil the lion. The truth.

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by H&Hhunter, Jun 28, 2017.

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  1. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    It is really to bad urbanized people can not grasp the damage they are doing to African wildlife through their misguided and ignorant support of animal rights groups.

    https://www.mahohboh.org/2017/06/26/when-a-king-is-deposed/

    I especially like the comment Blondie made about the 200 excess lions he's currently got on his block of land. It can be found in the replies below.
     
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  2. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    That reminded me:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/opinion/in-zimbabwe-we-dont-cry-for-lions.html
    Goodwell Nzou, "In Zimbabwe, We Don’t Cry for Lions", New York Times, 4 Aug 2015. Guest Op-ed.

    And: did any of the money collected by PETA go to the support of Zimbabweans who would have had jobs or otherwise benefited from legal, controlled hunting? Or did it go to anti-hunting campaigns?
     
  3. ridgerunner1965

    ridgerunner1965 Member

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    ok lets just eliminate all hunting in Africa. no seriously lets just do it.

    within 15 years all species would be gone. anything that eats a cow or eats what a cow does would be extinct.

    the locals would exterminate any species that have no monetary value. they would do it with snares,foot traps and by any other means they can. often very inhumanely.

    lets just do it!.!. all the big predators would be gone and all the grass eating animals would be gone..



    no tourism and no hunting dollars, lets see how they like it? no americans coming to ther ****** country spending literally thousands of dollars to hunt game. or even just look at game.

    I have just about had it with 3rd world countries acting like we are extincting there game herds by shooting the old and the weak.

    if yu don't want us there then pass a law agin it.



    lets see how they like it?
     
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  4. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    Ridgerunner

    It's not the African countries that are passing these laws. It's 1st world countries and their urbanized wildlife ignorant populations and politicians. The US and Europe passed laws prohibiting the import of lion trophies not the other way around.
     
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  5. eastbank

    eastbank Member

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    i have been close to lions and one lepord in africa with a 375 H&H in hand and still was scared a little, with out the rifle i would have been scared <deleted>. eastbank.
     

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  6. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    I get the impression Africans welcome hunting tourism.
    The hunting bans come from the US and EU anti-hunters who want to see lions past their prime killed when caught raiding livestock (or people), or dying like the one in the article emanciated with a belly full of indigestible porqupine quills.
     
  7. eastbank

    eastbank Member

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    when i was in boswana for the second time, there were two new trackers whom came from kenya because they stopped hunting in certain areas.i know that hunting puts money and food into the native population and with out it the smaller villages will have a hard time of it. i take clothes that i can,t wear and give it away along with small flash lights and knives. and tip any time i can. a good tracker is worth the cost as he may find a animal you wounded, a good skinner will insure your cape is done right and the camp workers will make sure your stay is enjoyable.i would sooner be in the bush with them than in some cities. eastbank.
     

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  8. CraigC
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    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    The anti-hunters are in lockstep with the anti-gunners. They don't care about what they claim to. They only want control and depend on the emotional response of the ignorant masses to push their agenda. They have no moral quandaries with lying and deceiving to get what they want.
     
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  9. Kano383

    Kano383 Member

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    Anti-hunters are the most ignorant, misinformed, dangerous and illogical bunch of self-righteous morons around.

    They are the biggest threat to wildlife conservation in Africa, before the poaching and subsistence agriculture.

    This is the professional opinion of someone who has spent years in the bush, and tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars from his own pocket - for the conservation of wildlife and natural resources.
     
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  10. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    The end is never pretty when you're old, sick and/or crippled. Don't matter if you're a Lion, Deer or Human. Funny how when our favorite dog or horse get sick we put it down to "put them outta their misery", while we make Grandpa suffer with Alzheimer's disease or our friends with Terminal Cancer suffer with excruciating pain, because we are "not animals!". Many anti hunters have been put off a some point by hunters showing a lack of respect for their quarry, like hauling their dead buck around in the back of a truck for a week to make sure the whole town sees it, or listening to a slob hunter shoot off their mouth about "whack 'em and stack 'em!" . While anti's can be ignorant and misinformed, sometimes as hunters, we can be our own worst enemy. The fact that hunting and hunters do more good than harm for wildlife, is true for most of the world, not just Africa. While scenarios like Cecil the lion are highly publicized, if anti hunting folks know the truth about how much hunters help their local wildlife, they might understand the African situation better. Folks see Japanese whaling ships depleting the oceans of large mammals and relate that to Lions. Folks see commercials on T.V. about illegal Rhino hunting for horn and relate that to legal Rhino culling. Don't matter if it's Cecil or Grandpa, folks need to look at life realistically, and judge each scenario appropriately. I been watching my neighbor next door make his old bird dog suffer because he doesn't have the heart to put her down. He thinks he's letting her live for her sake, but he's only really making her suffer for his. Basically the same boat as those anti hunting folks and Cecil.
     
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  11. MTNSTRYDER

    MTNSTRYDER Member

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    You can change anti hunters it takes calm and well thought conversations until you convince them their doing far more harm to wildlife with their actions and inactions plus total lack of knowledge that all life is a circle and only hunters and fishermen work all the time and together to support all wildlife.
    Keep at it until they feel guilty and slink away or even better.take them fishing.They are just very very un informed .
     
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  12. ridgerunner1965

    ridgerunner1965 Member

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    respectively sir, your are wrong in about 90% of cases.. facts, figures and statistacs don't mean doodely to a anti.

    you can show them what not hunting a certain species results in. disease and horrible deaths and they do not care! they are not smart enuf to put 2 and 2 together.

    yes they are un informed and prefer to stay that way.

    you sir may of used your tactics to change a few minds and I commend yu if you did. but as a rule, these minds are not open to change period.

    that's just my experience. I don't have the patience to argue with stupid people,yu may have the patience.. most don't.




    .
     
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  13. JHansenAK47

    JHansenAK47 Member

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    A lot of these anti-hunting folks forget that the human population is increasing. Animals in competition with people always lose, unless they are legally protected. Even with legal protection people that are in competition with animals will still put pressure on them indirectly. Unless animals are in someone's interest they are not going to be safe in the long term.
     
  14. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Administrator Staff Member

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    Too many people are desperate to believe what they are told by those they idolize and to support the causes of their idols. They can't listen to the facts because that would require them to rearrange their entire belief structure and they're not willing to do that.

    These are the same basic people who are willing to needlessly euthanize large numbers of animals in the name of animal rights. It's not about the facts for them, it's about the cause. And the cause is whatever their leaders tell them it is.
     
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  15. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    Don't forget....these are the same people who claim to care about animals rights and probably post on their web blogs from Starbucks, strip malls, or their apartments, where there once was prairie, pasture, or woods where animals they claim to care about so much, once lived. It's not ok to kill the animals. But it's ok to take their natural habitat to build buildings and parking lots.
     
  16. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    I hear the green Kool Aide goes down smoother. Animal rights is a cult, plain and simple.
     
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  17. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    While there may be some groups that are cult-like in the misplaced or excessive admiration of Animals, most of the time a cult is defined as a small group. Folks that believe in Animal Rights is not a small group. As a matter of fact, I am one that believes in animal rights and I'm a active hunter. Animal Rights is the belief that Animals surely deserve to live their lives free from suffering and exploitation......and they have a value completely separate from their usefulness to humans. Anyone here not believe this? Problem is, sometimes animals suffer and die naturally. Many times man putting them down before they suffer too long is better than how nature would do it, especially in the case of old, sick and starvation. Because man and his lifestyle has upset the fragile balance of prey and predators, sometimes man needs to be the apex predator and control prey populations......and sometime there is also a need to control predator populations. Man and his interaction with wildlife is not that much different than hundreds of thousands of years ago, other than the way he hunts, and the reason he hunts. While there are folks that are extreme in the way they define Animal Rights, and do more harm than good overall to wildlife.....there are also hunters that do the same........we call them poachers and slob hunters.

    ^^^This. Exploitation of animals and their rights is not just the act of directly killing them with a bow, trap or gun. It is also the pushing them out of their natural environment and forcing them to either adapt or die off. Many times when they adapt(like city dwelling coyotes and urban deer) they go from being just another animal in nature, to a pest. Like I said before, folks need to look at the big picture and how a multitude of little things add up to a big thing. This goes not only for Animal Rights folks, but hunters as well. Much has been argued about the reintroduction of Wolves into Yellowstone and it's effects on the environment there and the elk population. Supporters on either side are not only passionate about their stand, but also correct in their claims. Things is, both sides of the fence make the fenceline and the whole truth.

    This Cecil thing has been beat to death from both sides of the fence and I doubt if there ever will be a definitive resolution on what was right and what was wrong in the incident. Folks just need to make sure that they understand the big picture and not just the little 3X5 they have in their head.
     
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  18. CraigC
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    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    I do not believe that any animal should be intentionally mistreated, mutilated, starved or tortured. I also don't have a problem with using them for medical research and see fur farms as no different from beef or chicken farming. However, as soon as we start assigning them "rights", we go to a place we cannot come back from. That is a major component of the "animal rights" mental illness, assigning human qualities to animals. Whether it's your dog Fido or Cecil the lion. Some folks have completely lost their perspective and simply believe a lot of things that are not true. This seems to go hand in hand with dehumanizing their fellow man. You cannot have a calm, intelligent debate with someone who worships their dog and just said they wished your family got cancer. They do not care for the truth if it is not congruent with their beliefs.

    I live in the country between Memphis and Nashville. Most of the landscape here is rolling hills with farms and forests. We have huge tractors and Mennonite carriages on the road constantly. I was at the local Co-op in a nearby town one day picking up a few sacks of sweet feed when a local farmer came in to do the same. He was talking to the young guy loading trucks when a stray dog came up. He was a rough looking, straggly thing. He asked who the dog belonged to. Boy said he was a stray. Man asked why somebody didn't shoot him. Boy said somebody would probably get upset and call the police. Farmer thought for a moment and said, "I like my dogs but......they're dogs". I thought there was a lot of wisdom in that very simple statement, if you understood the meaning. Folks around here are intimately familiar with the cycle of life and death. Dogs and cats are kept outside in the dangers of the environment, where cats eat barn mice and dogs keep the coyotes away. Cats get eaten by coyotes and only the good ones survive. Dogs get bit by snakes. Cattle, pigs and chickens are slaughtered. Deer, turkey and waterfowl are hunted. Coons, possums, skunks, foxes and coyotes are opportunistic predators that will infiltrate a poorly constructed chicken house and wreak havoc. It stands in stark contrast to the urban life where dogs and cats are pampered and adored pets. Beef and chicken come from McDonald's and wild animals are only seen at the zoo or parks, where they are rated for how "cute" they are.
     
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  19. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Some sportsmen and hunters fail to understand the impact of invasive species, specifically wild hogs. A hunter on another website went bonkers over my photo of dead hogs in a trap.
     
  20. murf

    murf Member

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    animal auschwitz.
     
  21. CraigC
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    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    That is definitely true. Too many perceive them the same as whitetail instead of the destructive pests that they are. I've seen hunters go bonkers over someone shooting a sow with a litter of piglets.
     
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  22. Choctaw

    Choctaw Member

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    I agree. But first you have to get them out of the city and away from the Disney Channel.
     
  23. Nature Boy
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    Nature Boy Contributing Member

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    Wild lions would be gentle and let you pet them if mean hunters weren't trying to shoot them all the time. They're just scared and it's all your fault you bunch of mean $&@)#%!

    Oh, and Donald Trump and George Bush too!
     
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  24. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

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    Well now Cecil's poor son has been murdered by another overzealous, rich, trophy hunter. I'm sitting at my desk balling my eyes out. I need a coloring book, a hug, and a therapist.

    https://apple.news/A18SvtPhxR321uBp7RbNjrg
     
  25. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    I still mourn for Pumba. The unemployed warthog and father of 363 piglets who was murdered in cold blood by Cecils wife. It is suspected that the killing was racially motivated.;)
     
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