Cetme G3 or AK
- Thread starter kngflp
- Start date
- Status
Tomac
Member
wasrjoe said:The AK design is just that good. Seriously.
Of course, while everyone brags of their AKs reliability, how many of us brag about how accurate it is?That's the design tradeoff, in my opinion.
Agreed... I can consistently hit the 300m gong w/my 5.45 AK's and that's good enough for me (any further and I'll use my .308 Dragunov). I'll take reliability over gilt-edge accuracy anyday...
Tomac
Joe Demko
Member
wasrjoe said:
Your basis for saying this about the design rather than the particular example(s) you own?
Whoever said that just because it looks like an AK doesn't make an AK does have a point.
Century arms is known for taking short cuts (on most anything that they assemble) and most of the SAR-1's and WASR's I have seen were a little rough. The thing is that the AK is so simple that it doesn't take a whole lot to take one of the rough ones and smooth it up. If you start out with everything straight (I wouldn't buy one that wasn't) the biggest thing you have to worry about in Century guns is probably the fire control group, which isn't too expensive or hard to replace.
I have also heard of the pistons sometimes not being secured properly. They are supposed to be screwed in the whole way, backed out a couple turns so they wiggle a little, and then pinned in place (I think the pin in mine is welded as well but I am not looking at it right now.)
Century just screws them in all the way and welds them fast. They usually still work, but apparently sometimes the weld isn't as strong as it should be. I have read reports of people stripping their guns for cleaning and finding the piston almost unscrewed. I am thinking that if it came apart while you were shooting the damage would range somewhere between being terrible to get apart and fix to dangerous with that piston coming back out of alignment and going God-knows-where with all that force behind it.
All of this leads me to this point.
Get an AK, but get a higher end AK. At least with something like an Arsenal or comparable AK, you know that they were assembled by people who really care about whether or not they work right and that they were assembled with about the same care as a military issue AK (probably more in the case of something like one of the AK-USA conversions).
I can also tell you that the VEPR, while not a pure AK (but close) is a very accurate and reliable rifle. They are heavy, but are of very good quality.
My current AK is an Arsenal SA-M7 carbine that I have done some minor replacing and mods to. Eventhough I had to take care of one relatively minor problem with it, it is still way above the average Romanian AK in terms of quality.
I am anticipating an onslaught of people telling me that I don't know my @$$ from a hole in the ground, but that is how I see it.
Century arms is known for taking short cuts (on most anything that they assemble) and most of the SAR-1's and WASR's I have seen were a little rough. The thing is that the AK is so simple that it doesn't take a whole lot to take one of the rough ones and smooth it up. If you start out with everything straight (I wouldn't buy one that wasn't) the biggest thing you have to worry about in Century guns is probably the fire control group, which isn't too expensive or hard to replace.
I have also heard of the pistons sometimes not being secured properly. They are supposed to be screwed in the whole way, backed out a couple turns so they wiggle a little, and then pinned in place (I think the pin in mine is welded as well but I am not looking at it right now.)
Century just screws them in all the way and welds them fast. They usually still work, but apparently sometimes the weld isn't as strong as it should be. I have read reports of people stripping their guns for cleaning and finding the piston almost unscrewed. I am thinking that if it came apart while you were shooting the damage would range somewhere between being terrible to get apart and fix to dangerous with that piston coming back out of alignment and going God-knows-where with all that force behind it.
All of this leads me to this point.
Get an AK, but get a higher end AK. At least with something like an Arsenal or comparable AK, you know that they were assembled by people who really care about whether or not they work right and that they were assembled with about the same care as a military issue AK (probably more in the case of something like one of the AK-USA conversions).
I can also tell you that the VEPR, while not a pure AK (but close) is a very accurate and reliable rifle. They are heavy, but are of very good quality.
My current AK is an Arsenal SA-M7 carbine that I have done some minor replacing and mods to. Eventhough I had to take care of one relatively minor problem with it, it is still way above the average Romanian AK in terms of quality.
I am anticipating an onslaught of people telling me that I don't know my @$$ from a hole in the ground, but that is how I see it.
The original Q was AK vs G-3 or CETME.
I've owned an AK and shot many, including "The Switch" equipped model.
I've owned a CETME made by Century (nice one) and shot HK91/G-3s and FALs.
For a short handy carbine for under 200 meter or 300 meter use, get the AK. It's handier, has good performance, plentiful mags, and rock solid reliability, and will certainly hit a man sized target at 200m or less all day long. It may not get tiny groups, but in combat, a hit is a hit and few people are getting tiny groups in combat usage, which is what these rifles are built for originally.
The CETME for offhand use (house clearing, urban warfare, etc) isn't exactly "handy", i wouldn't want to CQB with it because of the length and the ergonomics. For prone or sitting position shooting at 200+ meters, it's excellent and has decent sights for this (sitting in a trench ambushing Soviets from a hilltop in Afghanistan, this would be a good rifle), as would the G-3, which has even better sights for this purpose. Long distance is it's forte.
If you want a handy weapon for medium to short distances for plinking and SHTF, a medium to high grade (Bulgarian, Arsenal, Russian Krebs Custom job,etc) or Vector Arms would certainly be indicated. The Krebs KTR-03 would be the best of both worlds...... Russian made gun, rail system forearm like our M-4s, and an aperature rear sight for good accuracy like the Galil or Valmet (both AK derivatives).
To clear things up: Long range, hard hitting, decent accuracy, get the Cetme, G-3, or better than both, the FAL. However, ergonomics on the G-3 and CETME are worse than the AK.
Short (0-50m) to medium (200m) range, fairly hard hitting and decent accuracy, get the AK.
Having shot all three, if I couldn't get the FAL, the AK would certainly be my pick if an M16A4 or M4 carbine were not handy. Fixed stock only, the folders are easy to carry but harder to shoot.
Edit: between a Romanian AK and a Cetme G-3, get the AK. SAR-1 preferably, this is what I had. Besides, 80% of the world uses AKs or has them around, in a real SHTF situation, parts, mags and ammo plentiful.....unlike the Cetme, which was only used by Spain, and the G-3, which was used by about 50 countries, only about 5 which still use it.
I've owned an AK and shot many, including "The Switch" equipped model.
I've owned a CETME made by Century (nice one) and shot HK91/G-3s and FALs.
For a short handy carbine for under 200 meter or 300 meter use, get the AK. It's handier, has good performance, plentiful mags, and rock solid reliability, and will certainly hit a man sized target at 200m or less all day long. It may not get tiny groups, but in combat, a hit is a hit and few people are getting tiny groups in combat usage, which is what these rifles are built for originally.
The CETME for offhand use (house clearing, urban warfare, etc) isn't exactly "handy", i wouldn't want to CQB with it because of the length and the ergonomics. For prone or sitting position shooting at 200+ meters, it's excellent and has decent sights for this (sitting in a trench ambushing Soviets from a hilltop in Afghanistan, this would be a good rifle), as would the G-3, which has even better sights for this purpose. Long distance is it's forte.
If you want a handy weapon for medium to short distances for plinking and SHTF, a medium to high grade (Bulgarian, Arsenal, Russian Krebs Custom job,etc) or Vector Arms would certainly be indicated. The Krebs KTR-03 would be the best of both worlds...... Russian made gun, rail system forearm like our M-4s, and an aperature rear sight for good accuracy like the Galil or Valmet (both AK derivatives).
To clear things up: Long range, hard hitting, decent accuracy, get the Cetme, G-3, or better than both, the FAL. However, ergonomics on the G-3 and CETME are worse than the AK.
Short (0-50m) to medium (200m) range, fairly hard hitting and decent accuracy, get the AK.
Having shot all three, if I couldn't get the FAL, the AK would certainly be my pick if an M16A4 or M4 carbine were not handy. Fixed stock only, the folders are easy to carry but harder to shoot.
Edit: between a Romanian AK and a Cetme G-3, get the AK. SAR-1 preferably, this is what I had. Besides, 80% of the world uses AKs or has them around, in a real SHTF situation, parts, mags and ammo plentiful.....unlike the Cetme, which was only used by Spain, and the G-3, which was used by about 50 countries, only about 5 which still use it.
Marko Kloos
Moderator Emeritus
Hmm. I actually prefer the "vastly inferior" SKS to the semi-auto AK. It has a longer LOP, a milled steel receiver, and four inches more barrel length. It is just as fast to reload as the AK if you practice a little with stripper clips, and it's a lot easier to shoot one from the prone position. The only edge of the AK is capacity, but I can actually carry more ammo in SKS stripper clips than I can comfortably carry in AK mags.
Anyhoo, back to the original question. MrMurphy sums up the contestants quite nicely. If we're talking clones from Century's Drunk Angry Monkeys, I'd give the nod to the AK, since its simplicity and robustness allows for more variance in quality than the CETME/G3 design. Also, the AK is far cheaper to feed, and every bit as good inside of 200 yards.
- Status
